My kid got hit at school.

The BBQ Pit
101

Yeah, I believe that too, but when you have a school policy like this (purposely ambiguous to give a school varying lattitude):

Then even a retaliator can be in the same boat as the bully. This has been done on purpose (by my son’s school) to discourage anyone from fighting and then claim the other party started it. The school would just say that it doesn’t matter who started it, and both parties are suspended anyways. If you can show that you were actually defending yourself, then the suspension would be lifted. This applied to my son both times because of the locations of the marks and bruises that both parties had. This is the type of crappy school justice that we have to adapt to in this overly-PC world. Knowing this, I would advocate knowing the school policy and learn to defend yourself with these rules in mind. Worked for my kid…0 days suspension on both incidents while the other 2 were sent down river.

That depends…it might even be manslaughter or murder . I recall that one kid died from one punch to the face…and that this type of incident may have happened more than once.

102

And here, in turn, Mauvaise shows how he can quote out of context. But hey, as long as it serves your purpose. But in the meantime, say bye-bye to respect from me. There are few things I have a low tolerance of, but being quoted out of context is one.

103

ggurl, thanks for the clarification. I have to say I read your OP and thought the incident, while unpleasant, wasn’t all that big a deal. But that’s when I thought it was a one time thing (maybe something to report to the school, but nothing worth getting so upset about). If it’s repeated behavior, that is different, especially since your daughter may have some things that (unfortunately) make her an easy target.

104

[QUOTE=ggurl]

Another fact is, my daughter more than likely has a form of autism called Asperger’s disorder. She has every symptom and only lacks the diagnosis, I am taking her for testing at the Cleveland Clinic this summer. Her social skills hover around the five- to six-year-old level, IMHO. She has extreme deficits in communication and picking up social signals, facial expressions, etc. Her IEP in school is considered “Other Medical” because she is medically fragile. So, maybe I am a little overprotective. I am NOT advocating “a bodyguard for my little precious” or whatever Mr. Vitriol called it. However, I don’t believe for a minute that my child is equipped to be completely without adult supervision. She doesn’t seek out supervision because she is impaired in the communication and social areas.
QUOTE]
If that Psychology Today article is the one I’m thinking of, it also discusses the eagerness of today’s parents to get diagnoses for their children so that they can get accomodations for those children. Asperger’s seems to be the syndrome du jour and, honestly, if you read the symptoms, hey, we all might have it.

105

Excalibre please explain why homschooling should be illegal,asswipe.

106

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. While many people may have some autistic traits, that doesn’t mean they are Aspergers or autistic.

FWIW ggurl my darling young one hit a kid at school yesterday. They’re both ASD unit kids and Philip kept on making noises to annoy M so M hit him. He spent 3 hours doing his work in the principal’s office and I gave him arseholes when I picked him up. He’s lucky he only got in school suspension – there were several unit kids suspended yesterday for being little monsters and hitting each other.

I hope that if your daughter gets a dx that will lead to appropriate accommodations in school so that she can cope. Oh and that the bullies are dealt with effectively.

107

That is just horrible. You described the situation exactly. I could just absolutely see that little boy running alongside you and just verbally and psychologically assaulting you. imNSho, this is just as unacceptable as hitting someone. And should be JUST as strenuously discouraged and punishable.

A child shouldn’t ever be pushed into a situation where they’re forced to have to take it, and then wait til the other child hits first before they’re “allowed” to protect themselves.

I hope this worked for you, and that you didn’t have to either take the torture OR have to resort to waiting til they struck the first blow.

JEeez some kids are such horrible little psychopaths. Their parents need to be horsewhipped.

108

Notice that I figured this might be the case! Just so you notice!

Get the principal involved, and take some advantage of the fact that they break like toothpicks in the face of parental indignation. If this shit has been going on all year, get those little fuckers dealt with. Try to make sure your daughter isn’t marked as a tattletale in the process; make sure the principal is sensitive to that and have him claim that teachers have noticed a pattern or something like that. (You shouldn’t have to tell a principal how to do their job, but I remember being in middleschool. The administrators were fucking morons.)

Which makes the whole thing a hundred times more complicated. I wonder if you could make some arrangement to have your daughter spend recess in the library or something (assuming she’d want that) since it’s obvious that she’s not going to learn “social skills” by getting harassed and tormented on the playground. Make sure the administration is aware of her condition, and understands that she won’t just pick up normal social skills the way other people do. If I recall correctly, there’s some dopers with Asperger’s, so they might have more constructive ideas about what to do in this particular circumstance. Have you checked the library or bookstore? I wouldn’t be surprised if there were quite a few appropriate books (I know there’s plenty on parenting autistic children, but I imagine that the demands of parenting a relatively more neurotypical child might be completely different.

The problem is that a lot of forms of parental intervention are going to result in more torment from the other kids. In my (not particularly relevant) opinion, it’s more worthwhile to consider homeschooling an Asperger’s child than a neurotypical child. Sorry for what I said about homeschooling earlier; obviously this situation warrants different approaches.

In a lot of my post, at least, it was my own emotional baggage that was replying for me - I suspect it was in a lot of cases. I’ve seen the “overprotective parent” end of the scale, and it’s not pretty. Clearly other folks here have shared that experience with me, and I think I projected a little. Sorry.

I hate him too, in case it makes you feel better. The little shit oughta get what’s coming to him, and like I said, a twelve-year-old should know better. Please let us know what happens when you follow up.

It seems that it’s become even more common of late for every pit thread to turn into an enormous pile-on in which the whole crowd decides to inform the OP exactly what’s wrong with every aspect of their person. It was more fun when it was more about mutual commiseration than public condemnation.

109

And it’s exactly those kind of policies that are wrong. If it’s demonstrably self defense, then why just blindly tell a kid to go along with school policy and do nothing when they’re getting their ass kicked and could stop it, potentially, if they defended themselves?

IMO, this is exactly the wrong attitude to take. If the school policy is crappy, work to change it.

I find it absolutely ridiculous to think that a person has to endure an assault rather than take the necessary steps to stop it. Self defense is not murder, and the only type of homicide that I could see a reasonable force measure of self defense called is justifiable homicide.

Lest you think that I was blameless in this, he and I were both 13 years old and in the eighth grade, and this happened on a public street after school (the bus had dropped us off), and he was up to his usual asshole behavior of name calling and getting in close to taunt. I was returning the shots pretty good verbally, but I decided at some point that he was really bothering me and shoved him. I made first contact, and I was wrong for that.

Verbal should’ve either been kept verbal, or I should’ve ignored him. I didn’t, I pushed him, and he clocked me in the eye. Scuffle broke up on its own, and I went home to tell momsix and dadsix about EvilBoy and they both scolded me for having initiated physical contact.

At school it might’ve been possible, and teachers certainly did try to discourage that behavior and punish the offenders when they saw it, in classes, in the halls, at lunch and at recess. The principal of my middle school ran a very tight ship. On the public street, there was nobody but the group of neighborhood kids that got off at the same bus stop.

It was the last physical fight (aside from the time I was raped) that I was ever in. Beyond that, the knowledge that I would defend myself if someone hit me and my ability (which I had to learn) to turn back insults on someone else seemed to make my life a lot easier. Did it suck that there were kids that made it necessary? Of course it did. Learning to counter them also made me a stronger person, though.

This one lived with his grandmother who believed that her little Good Son could do no wrong, and refused to believe that he was EvilBoy even when he stole from her. Eventually all the neighborhood kids learned that we could exert our own brand of peer pressure - ostracizing him - and neutralize his power as a bully by standing together. He lashed at one of us, no one would speak to him. Unpleasant results for him meant we saw less and less of him and he just stuck around with the theives and eventually disappeared. No one I know from back there has heard from him in at least eight years.

110

No, my failings are my own. I was going for a simpler point (and not trying to say that I have ‘wounds that will never heal,’ although I’m sure some people do): this stuff didn’t build my character or do me any good. Most of what I dealt with (and I stress, dealt with) was standard small geek getting picked on stuff. Normally I ignored it, sometimes it was painful. Getting picked on daily for a year by people who’d been my only friends? Yeah, I do think that explains why I periodically worry my friends have gotten sick of me and that people are waiting for an opportunity to tell me off. Maybe I’m wrong. Anyway, that’s far beyond the pale and I probably shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place. Still, count me in the “builds character my ass” camp.

111

:rolleyes:

I’m sorry, do you have the social skills at the “five- to six-year-old level”? Autistic spectrum kids tend to be particularly prone to bullying because they are unable to discern when they are being made fun of to begin with, and because they are unlikely to seek help. While some parents do overreact, the truth is that in the past many of these kids were just allowed to fall by the wayside and be bullied. This nostalgia about the good old days of full-contact sports in gym class and good old fashioned bullying is just crap.

Yes, children need to learn to deal with conflict, and protecting them from every possible harm or disagreement is doing them a disservice. But being bullied does not build character–left unchecked it builds more bullies. It creates kids who learn to respond to a bully in a likewise manner, and then procede to deal with others the same way, at least in my experience. This “standing up to being bullied made me the man I am today” may be true for a few who were otherwise supported and provided examples that let them develop the kind of confidence to deal with bullies, but for most the problem doesn’t just go away one magical day. I, too, struck back in a dramatic way and became known as “that crazy kid you don’t mess with”…but that didn’t make me a better or more well-liked person. And it didn’t stop the other characters in question from bullying others, escalating from mild harassment to physical and sexual abuse in some cases.

I’m glad that the problem is being more widely recognized. I’m a little doubtful about some of the conflict resolution methods–the “let’s just talk it over” only works when both parties are sincerely contrite and interested in a non-aggressive resolution are going to sincerely participate–but it’s better than just teaching all kids to become and expect violence as a tacitly accepted, if not approved, form of resolving problems or establishing social standing. That sort of insouciance in an extreme leads to the behavior that has become common in inner-city schools.

An ex-roommate used to frequent a bar near my home in Milwaukee that, at times, came known as a place to fight. (He just liked the female clientele, not the fights.) The same guys (I imagine) who were bullies in high school would come in there looking for a fight as an “adult”. This isn’t some kind of behavior that tails off with age; instead, it serves as a replacement for genuine confidence. It becomes more virulent and dangerous, especially when fueled by alcohol and testosterone.

As for the OP, I can understand her upset, and I witnessed the kind of misogynistic bullying that was focused on girls who were not popular or protected; as bad as school was for me, it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been had I had different plumbing. That sort of thing needs to be nipped in the bud with a very sharp instrument, and the perpetrators illuminated as to the absolute inappropriateness of that behavior.

Stranger

112

[QUOTE=Primaflora]
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. While many people may have some autistic traits, that doesn’t mean they are Aspergers or autistic.

QUOTE]
My intended implication was: if you go by the list of traits there are lots of people who might think they or their child fit the bill. I believe there was a thread on these boards a while back where more than one person engaged in a little self-diagnosis of Aspergers. We’ve had more than one student come into our counseling center, after reading the list of traits, asking for referrals to get this diagnosis despite the fact that they have just about finished a very rigorous 4 years at a highly competitve institution of higher learning without being a blip on our radar (and we get lots of blips). It doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but on paper it certainly could fill a lot of bills. There are parents who seek this diagnosis for the associated accomodations and there are practioners who comply. To believe otherwise is naive.

113

I actually have a lot of thoughts on this subject, and I’d be happy to discuss them elsewhere. I’ve never run into a discussion of homeschooling here, but I don’t tend to read GD much, so I don’t know if this is something that’s been discussed widely on the SDMB.

I’m not interested in hijacking this thread over it. If you start a thread in GD or the Pit, I’d love to participate, since I’d be glad to hear other perspectives on it.

114

As I read this thread, I was a bit taken aback by my emotional reaction to the ‘side’ that some posters have taken. I got angry, and couldn’t wait to read the whole thread so I could post a hearty FUCK YOU to any and all folks who espoused any opinion near ‘children must learn to deal with bullying themselves, rather than be protected from it’.

Obviously, I was the target of bullying as a child. I never really dealt with it adequately, never got over it, so I’ve been dragging that crap around until I’m now 5 times as old as I was then. 80% of your life is a long time to be screwed up in the head about something without doing something about it. So where’s the failure? Who’s to blame for me being the way I am today?

Well, me, of course. I recognize that on an intellectual level. The animal part of my brain, however, still occasionally lets surface the boiling anger and searing humiliation I felt back then. If it hadn’t been bullying, maybe I’d’ve latched onto something else that I would cling to desperately and relentlessly as a scapegoat for my own failure to progress. I dunno.

I’ve never had children, so I’m not going to presume to give advice to someone who does. As someone who’s been where the OP’s daughter seems to be, I think the only thing I can say is support her as best you can as she finds her own way to deal with it. And do encourage her to do just that, despite the bumps and false steps she will encounter along the way.

I still feel impotent almost 40 years later, and I’ve allowed that to shape a major part of my personality. I don’t want that to happen to anyone else. In a perfect world, there would be no bullies. In this world, maybe the best we can hope for is that we can learn to deal with them and not let hatred, fear and anger fester and poison us.

115

As someone who was constantly bullied (to the point where I spent much of my adolescence thinking about suicide :() I could not agree with you more. To this day I have the same feelings you stated in your last sentence.

Being bullied does nothing but make the person being bullied feel like shit.

116

ggurl, your situation is obviously very different from what I thought when reading the OP. You and your daughter have my sympathy and best wishes (for what it’s worth :slight_smile: ). As a parent I do know what it’s like to worry about children, although I’m fortunate enough not to have anything like your problems to struggle with.

To the posters who suggested going to the police for what appeared to be an isolated incident (which, it turns out, it wasn’t), I still maintain a sincere phooey to you from me :stuck_out_tongue:

Wow. It seems we do live on different planets. This is not a slam on Yeticus Rex, of course – I assume he doesn’t make the school policy – but calling a police officer for a school fight seems wildly overkill, unless there’s a continuing problem of violence at the school.

117

[QUOTE=Caricci]

OK. I think we’re on the same page then with self diagnosis and the dangers thereof. Sorry for the kneejerk reaction. I just get so sick of people telling me that Aspergers et al doesn’t exist but, yeah, I’ve come across those parents as well. I could give you a list of who to see in my state if you want a diagnosis whether or not your kid truly is on the spectrum.

118

Your little brat got what she deserved. Maybe you should concentrate on her “socialization issues” rather than the other kid’s actions which were taken out of self defense. How in the holy blue fuck will homeschooling her help her social problems? Jesus, mothers like you frighten me.

:mad: I am angry at parents who overprotect their children.
:mad: I am angry at parents who act like their children cannot be wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

119

Carnick, did you catch ggurl’s second post? It puts it all in a different perspective, to put it mildly.

120

Damnit, the one time I skim the last page of a thread there’s a revelation posted and I miss it. :smack:

Sorry about that ggurl.