"My kid is a genius." "So is mine."

The BBQ Pit
101

It seems theres an abnormally large amount of vitrol directed to competitive parents, some justified, but a rather lot of it unjustified. What’s wrong with a parent gasp having high standards? It seems a uniquely western view that a child should always “feel comfortable” and “do what’s natural”.

Coming from an Asian background, it was always made clear to me that it was not okay to coast through life and that success had to be earned through hard work and sacrifice. Like it or not, performance in school is highly correlated with success later in life and “happiness” does correlate positively with intelligence. I don’t think theres anything wrong with parents pushing their child to compete and move outside their comfort zone. In fact, a lot of what I think is wrong with Western society and especially the US today is this notion that children shouldn’t have any pressures or expectations put on them.

True, arguing about who can walk the fastest or toilet train better is rather pointless and inane, but not because it’s competitive, it’s because the thing theyre competing for is rather useless. I don’t at all think that invalidates the entire concept of being competitive.

102

You realize that was just a joke, right?

Well, okay. I’m not joking that my 11YO is not reliably tying his shoelaces, though at this point I do think it’s more a case of won’t than can’t. After all, at any given time, at least a quarter of his classmates are also walking around with their shoes untied. But for a time he really just didn’t get it.

This is normal for him. He has a neuro-muscular problem that makes learning new motor skills difficult. Tying shoes is a surprisingly complicated process, and with Velcro shoes so widely available it just wasn’t important to him, until fairly recently. And the kid, being half Norwegian and half flodnak, is as stubborn as the day is long - trying to force him to learn something is like trying to teach a pig to yodel.

I don’t mention this much, because I’m afraid it will come across as complaining. I do realize how lucky we are, if this is the worst of his troubles. We know he’s going to live to grow up, we know he’s going to live an independent life, he doesn’t have to take medicine every day or spend one month out of every six in the hospital - we’re far, far luckier than a lot of families. I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining. At the same time, he’s a very bright kid, and I’m not saying this because he reached some arbitrary milestone earlier than the neighbor’s kid. I’m saying it because his teachers and other adults who have worked with him have said it to me. But I don’t say that often either, because I’m afraid it will come across as bragging.

Don’t want to complain, don’t want to brag… I dunno. I get as annoyed at the MommyOlympics as the rest of yinz. But I don’t want to hide important parts of what makes my son who he is, either. Where should we draw the line?

I realize this is a rhetorical question. And I realize I’m rambling. Sorry.

103

I just thought I would post a story to go against the grain. My Mum was the absolute opposite of the mums being described. She didn’t notice when we got our milestones. Someone else had to tell my Mum I got my first tooth. Ask her when I first walked, or what my first word was - she won’t have a clue.

She’s a great Mum though, couldn’t have better.

104

But having high standards is different from expecting your child to be the best. For example, I had a childhood friend whose mother was never satisfied knowing her grade on a test or report card. She would give her mother a test on which she got a grade of ,say ,97. Mom’s question was " What did Jeannie get?" If Jeannie got a 95, that was fine. My friend scored higher and her mother was the winner. If Jeannie scored a 98, my friend’s mother was the loser and things weren’t fine. The expectation wasn’t that she would get good grades- it was that she would get higher grades than Jeannie.

105

I walked before I crawled. Ultra-competitive child I was. The doctors and physiotherapists were pretty sure that contributed to my complete lack of fine motor skills :smack: requiring a good year of physio to correct. So I’m always aware that it’s possible that beating milestones isn’t the best thing.

106

Sorry, Flodnak, I didn’t mean to pick on you. Just wanted to use your post to make a point about the nature of postings.

107

High but realistic standards is one thing, and usually a good thing. It’s reasonable to expect good behavior, effort, and good grades as far as the kid is able to accomplish those things. (Unrealistic expectations, such as those found on the overscheduling thread, are damaging.)

But competitiveness is different. It’s all about winning over the other families and being better, not about having a happy kid. It’s the toddler version of “silver is the same as losing, and only a gold is acceptable.” Bragging and cut-throat competition are unattractive traits, even when applied to your children.

Besides, a lot of the competitive parents are the same ones that think their kids should get rewards just for existing, in school or such. Since their kids are Special, they’re willing to do anything to ensure that the kid gets the best, whether he deserves it or not, because they have to win. Cheating becomes rampant in this kind of environment, because every parent is convinced that their kid should be valedictorian.

–Interestingly, a hundred of even fifty years ago it was generally considered bad to have a precocious child. People thought that a child that showed genius early on was more likely to burn out and have serious problems–“early bloom, early fade.” But we have nurtured our competitiveness until it has seeped into every part of life, even babyhood.

108

Ooh! Ooh! I know the answer to this one!

Because you were using your post as an excuse for an egotistical boast about your own early genius, and to get in a way-too-early boast about your presumptively precocious children?

In other words, because you were being an egotistical braggart of exactly the sort we were discussing?

109

~checks~
Nope, I wasn’t. I was using an example of how their concerns were valid and how it can be rough. There’s a huge difference between a statement of fact and bragging. Nor would I feel a need to boast about my future children, but again it’s a statement of fact that nature, or nurture, would both play the same role.

Just because what I say makes you feel inferior, doesn’t mean I’m trying to be superior.

By the way asshole, if you think I’d be bragging about the time I graduated highschool or my scores on tests, you’re a fucking moron. I don’t expect any Dopers to give me more respect based on some rather arbitrary scores in high school. If my posting style doesn’t win me the respect of my peers, than pointing out the awards I’ve gotten over the years sure wouldn’t do it.

Try not to let your jealousy overwhelm your rational functions, eh spunky?

110

You know, Finn, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t your use of polysyllabic words that kept you from getting along with the other kids.

111

I think someone else already pointed out your self-referential back-patting and the irony involved, so I’ll lay off.

My pointing out your self aggrandizement while not allowing for relevance? I don’t think that’s ironic, but that in itself could be ironic.

And my posting was not 0-content. I was patting myself on the back for labeling your posting ironic…which, in itself WAS ironic!

Wow.

112

(Maybe it was that I don’t like being called a braggart for stating the simple honest truth of my life? Think that could be it? Naw, insult me and then blame me when I respond. That’s a tactic that’s seen much use on the Dope, congrats, intellectual dishonesty can now be yours!)

You know spoke, I’m sure your appraisal of my childhood is accurate, why, how could I doubt your over-the-internet diagnosis based on your totally incorrect reading in this thread? Why, if a smart person talks about what it was like to be smart in school, they must be bragging!
(You watch The Incredibles recently schmuck?)

Right now all you know is that I related the story of my time in high school, and it evidently made you and a few other fucks jealous, or simply stupid enough, to accuse me to trying to toot my own horn.

By the way, if you look at what happened in this thread, I made a perfectly innocuous post detailing a little bit of what high school was like for me, and why it could be rough for other smart kids. Why a bunch of assholes feel that means anything other than an anecdote is beyond me.

113

I’m guessing it was the touchiness and overwhelming self-esteem.

Lighten up, FinnAgain…I love your book.

114

I dunno. Sometimes simply recounting can seem like bragging. Case in point: Me. I was speaking in clear, complete sentences at around ten to eleven months. Other folks besides my parents corroborate this, so it’s not parental exaggeration born of pride (anyway, my Dad is about the last person I’d expect to flatter anybody). My Mom and Dad, in their impovershed youth, would entertain themselves on Friday nights by rolling me around the grocery store in a shopping cart, waiting for unsuspecting shoppers to approach. I was a tiny, scrawny, bald little baby, and looked kind of like E.T. morphed with a premie. Since I was precocious and looked like a newborn long after I was, I struck people as a total freak. Old ladies would hobble up to pinch my cheek, and I’d say something like “Can you give me the red box? Can I have the red box, please, right there?” No, not Shakespeare, but I guess I nearly gave a few old folks a heart attack.

Did I grow up to be a Shakespeare or an Einstein or whoever other genius-type? 'Fraid not. In fact, I can see no indicator in my verbal precociousness of what my future performance would be. My peers quickly caught up, and many surpassed me handily, so by mid grade school I was pretty much on par with the rest of the “above average, but not spectacular” students. In other words, I was and am entirely unremarkable.

It’s pretty natural, I should think, for a parent to be encouraged by a child like me, and they probably were a little disappointed that I turned out to be so normal (I think at one point they debated whether or not to try to cash in on my oddity, figuring rightly I probably wasn’t quite special enough).

I suppose, if it makes the irritated feel better, most of these “genius” babies simply aren’t, no matter what their parents think, and these parents may find it a rude awakening when their hopes are inevitably readjusted. Fortunately for me, my parents weren’t too hung up on it. I just hope, for the sake of these baby “geniuses”, they don’t take the letdown born of these unrealistic expectations out on the kids when the glow finally fades.

115

More for shalmanese: The other bad thing about parental competitiveness is how isolating it is. In general, parents need the support and help of other parents–most SAHMs, for example, try to get together with other SAHMs during the day and find that it really makes everything go better. SAHMs in areas with very few people doing the same thing tend to feel lonely. The same goes for any parent (but I’m a SAHM so that’s what I know).

It is usually really important for parents to be able to talk honestly with their friends about their concerns about–and their pride in–their kids. But when you get someone with a competitive streak, who has to be the best mom and have the best kid, that is undermined. She is worse off, because she can’t be honest about her fears; she has to cover them up with bragging and making other people feel bad. She can become the mommy equivalent of the kid who bullies to cover up her own insecurity. She loses friends and becomes isolated, with no one to turn to if a problem shows up.

Meanwhile, the people around her become less willing to share honestly, for fear of being squashed and made to feel like bad parents. They become more isolated too, because there are fewer people they feel comfortable with.

There’s nothing wrong with being proud of your kid, but it’s important to temper it with realism and a sense of humor. It’s important to share honestly. When your friends already know that you realize you’re an ordinary parent, that you like their kids and take pleasure in their accomplishments too, that you admit to having bad days–then it’s OK to share your happiness at the new shoe-tying skill, too, and they’ll be happy for you. Then you get a good sense of friendship and community and stuff, and all the parents and children benefit.

OK, rant over, I guess. :slight_smile:

116

See, the funny part is your assumption that your test scores were higher than mine, or any of the other posters in this thread. News flash: The Straight Dope Message Boards are full of erstwhile precocious children. Check your ego at the door if you’re going to post here, sport.

The fact that several posters drew the same conclusion should give you pause to ponder.

If you were using your experience to make a point, you could have easily made the same point without patting yourself on the back. (By inventing an anonymous “friend” with the problem you described, for example.)

Modesty is a social tool, one which you have apparently never learned to use.

117

This has to be the single slimiest debating tactic on the Dope, bar none. Insult a person, and then when lo and behold, they’re insulted, blame them for it. You don’t get to smarm it up, suggest that I’m bragging, etc… and then act like a freakin’ victim when I respond. That’s amazing cowardly.

Sure, admit that your charges are baseless and apologize. Otherwise, no, I’m not going to ‘lighten up’ with people insulting me. Sorry.

And, y’all keep using the word ‘ironic’, but evidently you don’t know what it means. Why, pray tell, is it ironic to point out that some parents’ concerns are valid, and that it can be rough to be smart in high school, and that intelligent parents who have an intellectually nurturing household are more likely to have intelligent children? It’s ironic to point out facts? I’m waiting…

Listen yet again.
I gave an example of what my life in high school was like. I pointed out that some of the parents’ concerns, up to and including smart people having smart kids, were valid.
No irony there, sorry to say.

I’m sorry, your post was vaccuous and ignorant while having zero real content. Now we’ve semantically minced your behavior, are you happy?

My post wasn’t ironic, nor was it bragging, nor was it any of the other things y’all might choose to sling at me. It was a simple statement of fact. Life is hard for some inteligent kids in school. Parents love their children and don’t want them to endure hardship. This is all pretty basic shit. So please, go back to patting yourself on the back. I’m sure I’ll write something ironic one of these days that you can call me on, maybe a few years from now you can link to this thread with a big “ah-hah!” Better late than never, right?

118

Um, FinnAgain?

You totally missed the point of the OP.

And you misspelled “graduated”.

119

dangermom is once again being very astute.

120

Well, there are certainly no self-esteem issues there.

I happen to think the “newbie” label is the slimiest tactic on the board, but that’s my opinion.

I don’t think my charges were baseless. I think you’re an arrogant twit. You’re like a terrier with a suddenly-interesting bath towel. You latch on, and can’t seem to let go of the tug-o-war. Relax the jaws of contention!

I’m fully aware of the meaning of “ironic”. I have Google!

And as far as lurking around, doing vanity searches for your “irony” references…I doubt I’ll be wasting much time doing so.

If you were unaware that your initial posting would be read as back-patting, then you’re also a little less intelligent that you would suggest, Finn.

Sincerely Yours,
Asshat