My Mother the Antichrist (freakishly L-O-N-G)

The BBQ Pit
21

A divorce lawyer is a good idea. I just hope that if you recommend it to him, he does it–it sounds like he might not and just get taken advantage of even more so than he already has. My parents never went that route, but I always thought we’d all have been better off if they had–I’ve never know two people more ill suited for each other and my sister and I got to appreciate every hateful minute of it.

Hang in there, hopefool, it is difficult, but you can find the strength to get through it. Okay, I’ll stop sounding like Tony Robbins now :slight_smile:

22

I’ve just waded through this story, and all I can say is that slavery was outlawed at the end of the Civil War.

It sounds like your step-dad needs both a divorce lawyer and a psychiatrist. You should also be prepared for personal attacks in this. Your mother has no roght to destroy the life of another person.

23

Boy wireless, are you ever right. I so know he needs an attorney (and actually, I’d prefer it no other way), but tanookie nailed it in one… he’d NEVER do that. No matter who tried to convince him, he’d only go with whatever she said, for he’d be more in trouble than he sees it as he already is. sigh

I wish there was a way I could get it through to him the importance of weathering her ire this ONE time, to go against her, no matter what and stand his ground. But I can’t imagine how I’ll be able to do that. Although, while she’s off gallivanting around on vacation and he house-sits and minds the pets, maybe I’ll have some uninterrupted impact. I’ll hold on to that and pray hard.

And thanks for the hug. I so need it. As well as any Tony Robbins advice you have to give lauramarlane. I appreciate you both. I’m just so sorry LM that you and your sister had to live that hell forever. I can only sympathize more than you’ll ever know and be in agreement. Some people should just never hook up (let alone, have children – hey, perhaps I was switched at birth? …that’s the only explanation I can come up with that makes any sense) and force anyone else to endure their torturing of one another.

Steelerphan - That was the best summary of this situation I’ve ever seen (and good for a much needed chuckle). Can I apologize again about the soap opera length? I’m still just so ungodly upset. sigh And I don’t know when it’ll stop, but I AM prepared for my mother to come after me full-throttle with all guns blazing about any and every past indiscretion I’ve ever even thought. Ad homonym won’t even begin to describe what she’ll thrive on planning. But that’s ok. She will NOT make my life a hell forever. Someday, probably sooner than she’ll ever realize, things will change and she’ll die the lonely uber bitch that she is.

Thanks for the billionth time to everyone. This is very cathartic. I’m hoping the therapeutic part will come in later. Either that, or I’ll find more stuff to break.

24

Part of your post made me laugh out loud, hopefool! When I was a kid (8 or so) I used to pretend that I had been switched at birth and these were not my real parents–I found great comfort in that game. I wanted Lucille Ball to play my real mom. I was kind of torn on dad–on the one hand, I thought Fred McMurray would be good with girls since he did so well with boys, but I really liked Robert Reed for the role of dad. Can you tell I watched a lot of t.v. as a kid :slight_smile:

Over the years I found that the best way to deal with mom and defuse most situations was to act totally out of character. She, like your mom, was one of those to dredge up anything you’d done since birth that, in her mind, was wrong and beat you over the head with it. My typical response in the past had been to cower and cave. Then, one day, I just said, “so what?”–she was totally stumped because I broke the pattern we’d had for years and she just shut up because she didn’t know how to respond. Of course, she was a cast iron bitch so she adapted, too, but I found that by not giving her what she wanted or expected, I could shut down the arguments most of the time. I also found that by forcing myself to remain calm–even when I desperately wanted to go into a flying rage–I wasn’t as upset after the fact (and didn’t pop as many tums either.) Hang in there, hopefool, you sound like a really good person–she can’t take that away from you.

25

One thing that struck me, hopefool - you said that your mother would lose if you had to choose between them. What I don’t really understand is why you have anything to do with her now. It sounds like you get absolutely nothing but negative things from any interaction with her - wouldn’t it be healthier for you to cut her out of your life?

26

I don’t know what to say except what a sad, fucking mess. I’m sorry you have to witness it, and I’m sorry it’s occuring at all. I know what it’s like to have a shrieking harpy mother and a passive father- heartbreaking.

My thoughts are with you.

27

Obviously everyone is different and I do not profess to speak for all children of dysfunctional families but:

You get one set of parents in life (usually) and for better or worse it is the only life you know. My parents were completely incompetent and horribly abusive. It was still very difficult to cut most of my family out of my life. It was the best decision I could have made, really the only decision left to me, but I did not make this decision lightly, quickly or with glee.

I deal with my mother superficially and from a distance whenever possible. Once you burn that bridge it is final and I haven’t written her off totally yet. My father, two of my three brothers, my grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins on my father’s side - well I have not seen/spoken to them in many years.

I hope that makes sense. I liken it to why people don’t leave an abusive spouse. When you are caught inside the relationship it is much more difficult to see it objectively and to find a way out than it appears from the inside.

28

I agree with tanookie. Of course, I didn’t choose to distance myself from my parents–the decision was made for me when they passed away. But my life improved in so many ways that I can’t even begin to enumerate them here. For a long time it was very hard for me to say that things had only gotten better for me after my parents died–it was as if I were saying I was glad they were dead. But I’ve made my peace with it all and am a better, and much more stable, person today.

It’s not an easy decision to make because there’s it’s safe to stay in a sitaution that you are familiar with–even if it is a painful and abusive situation. The unknown is scary–so is the idea of cutting yourself off from your family. But in some cases, it’s the best thing you can do for yourself.

29

Because you are, and I’m so appreciative for your responses and care. It IS, right now, keeping me going. Thank you.

Let’s see what all I’ve missed from last night…

lauramarlane - I can’t believe how much we’ve seemed to lead a parallel life. I, too, used to respond to all my mother’s invective in kind, until I met my husband that is. And as I mentioned earlier on up thread, he changed my way of thinking about discussions and behavior. So slowly, I begin altering how I dealt with her to the point that I no longer scream and carry on (well, except for maybe once or twice per decade now). It’s been years now that it’s been in place and tactics range from politely changing/ignoring the subject to calmly answering her queries with logic. For the longest, it’s kept her off-guard and unable to deal with this “new and improved me” (yeah, she ain’t the brightest bulb) format, leaving her kind of confused and short shifted. However, of late, she’s taking all my best stuff and pushing it aside, either forging ahead with great bitchiness or upping the ice queen factor to a chilling (pun intend) degree.

SIGH!!

Regardless, thanks for the encouragement. I’m definitely trying my best to hold it together, what with dealing with this shitty situation, my suicidal friend and all my deteriorate mental health problems, it ain’t easy. But what other option is there? Thanks again for your support.

Zette - Wow, I feel honored that you’ve read my thread. I’ve been lurking so long on the SD and read so much of your stuff that I feel like a giddy star-struck school girl that you cared enough to comment. Thank you for being so kind, relating and brightening my day. Needed that very much.

featherlou - I see that both tanookie and lauramarlane took a shot at explaining how difficult it is to get negative family members out of your life. And not only do I appreciate their attempts (from their perspective) on my behalf, but also you asking in the spirit of trying to help out. Thank you all.

Now to explain where I am with this, as best I can (and briefly, one would hope too – although at this point, I’m betting that no one thinks I can do anything briefly), to convey how convoluted it all is for me.

Growing up, it was my mother and me against the world. She wanted it that way, so nurtured and fostered in our every action and throughout our environment. That’s why I resented her remarrying my step-dad and her subsequent refusal to cut him out of her life if she so hated him, etc. In keeping, for many years, I was a (albeit kinder, gentler version) carbon copy of her hard-line beliefs… my dad was an idiot, stupid people should be allowed to live, everything is black and white and if you don’t see it that way, you’re just deluding yourself, you are supposed to DO the hard stuff whether you want to or not (or are unable to are not), people don’t take responsibility, no one’s really mentally ill, ad naseum, and those are just a few gems off the top of my head.

And sadly, I bought into them lock, stock and barrel, just tempered with more compassion. It wasn’t until I got away from our fundamentalist church and began living on my own that got me thinking that I just might disagree. Not everyone is lazy. Not everyone asks for what they get. Not everyone is stupid that doesn’t conform to her (or my) worldview. Let me tell you, it was eye opening. To further that, my husband is the complete opposite of Sybler and he also began to teach me more things… like patience and true understanding and respect and other peoples’ perspectives and just better ways of doing things than tearing down everyone else’s self-esteem to make your own better. He taught me to be myself. Which goes without saying, is a betrayal to der furor and something hated between her and him.

That leads to more recent times. I realized with my nervous breakdown, that amazingly, my mother is a huge source of my problems, but being a big believer in the fairy tales I was raised with, I clung to the fact that she IS my mother, ya know? How could she not want anything than what’s best for me? She loves me, right? I’m her only child, yadda, yadda, yadda.

So much therapy trying to learn to cope with her and my residual anger, I established the tricks that I talked to lauramarlane about, in hopes of improving our tenuous relationship. It sort of helped, at least in so far as when she wanted to like me in the first place, but otherwise, the tension, condemnation and condescension (among whatever else) remained. Therefore, despite my best efforts, many a therapist and self-help book has suggested that I “divorce” myself from her because, well, she’s fucking poison.

But I can’t do it. I’ve tried and tried and each time, it seems worse than before, somehow my fault that she’s an evil, uncaring bitch. And although I know that no matter how I behave while I am in contact with her, she still chooses to think just as negatively about me as possible, there is something that freezes my heart when I consider that if I DO intentionally sever all ties, she’s think even more so and this time she’ll be right, at my doing. Does that make sense? And I do realize that ultimately it shouldn’t matter and that I’m probably being passive-aggressive waiting for her to make me feel like my hand is forced in the matter before I do something, but I can’t seem to take dealing with it any other way.

God, I hope that doesn’t sound more convoluted than I normally do.

One example to help illustrate, I hope, where I’m coming from on this. My whole life, I’ve tried to do things when my internal clock says I’m ready… you know, the first time you feel old enough to stay home alone, driving the car by your self the first time, whatever. Well, anything/everything that was ever important to me in this context, she shot down no matter how hard I fought. When I reached the age that I know longer wanted to be called Kemmy, but Kem instead, like a big girl. She refused, so the best I was left with was to come up with my own take on what was left. Hence, Kemi I am. Kinda lame, but it worked for me as a 12 year old. When I got out on my own, and even carried over into my marriage, I begged to stop our daily “check in with one another” sessions (those for the sole purpose of “hi, I’m up/at work/whatever” to “night, I’m going to bed”) simply because they were 1.) redundant and since we talked so fucking frequently, didn’t leave much to discuss the next go 'round, and 2.) I was an adult on my own (or now with a husband and a mortgage), who should be treated thusly without having to let my every move/whereabouts be known and approved of by my mother. As one can imagine, she took great offense, implying all the guilt trip type things that I didn’t love her and want to be involved, and on and on. So I’ve kept up this insane ritual for no other reason than because it’s what she’s wanted and to keep her off my back as much as possible. Yes, I know that makes me a spineless wimp in this case. I hang my head in shame. :wally

But, get this, and it illustrates beautifully her endearing personality… we ‘talked’ (and I use that word loosely) again last night and I bring up her much obvious recent distress with me. I mean, her typical sarcasm and dismissive tone is loud enough for a deaf person to pick up on and I was tired of it, on top of everything else, so I simply asked what the deal was this time. And as usual, it stems from me being “sick” again and that she has no use for me. So why didn’t she say so? Regardless, after all those years of fighting for my rights to a mature relationship and giving in to her whims, she now decides that she only wants to talk to me if it’s important. No need to address the usual getting up and going to bed routine.

And know what? No matter how much that’s what I’d wanted all along and it IS for the best (at least for my stress levels), it fucking hurt because SHE gets to decide when it’s beneficial to her, damn what else it’s done to anyone else in the interim. Not to mention, since this is something I can’t help (although I try like there is no fucking tomorrow), it comes across as the definitive backstab. Which I’m sure is what she intended and had been hoping for all along, just waiting for a maximized moment.

Sigh. God, I’m long winded. So, in answer to your question (I think it’s answer) featherlou, no matter how good it would be for me immediately and certainly in the long run, I can’t seem to get the balls to do it on my own. The aftermath (or the unknown as it was called) seems infinitely more scary/damaging and harmful than the evil that I know. However, I will never have a problem doing so if it includes anyone I love that she shits on, just not me. I know, I’m such a fucking mess. But there it is, and I don’t know how to make myself get over this feeling and deal with what needs to be done without the external stimuli. I’ve been trying, unsuccessfully, for seven long years.

I hope that at least explains how complicated my emotions are on this. And that IS one of the problems, my heart is ruling this matter despite my best efforts to the contrary and even knowing it is so untrue, the little kid in me screams “but she’s your mom! and all mommy’s dearly love their children to the exclusion of all else” and I can’t shake that. It’s complete and utter bullshit, but still there nonetheless.

So, again, thank you all so very much. I can’t say that enough, especially those who’ve repeated come back into the thread to try and help and offer support and encouragement. This has been the only outlet I’ve really had for days and it’s helping me at least hold on a little longer (I mean, my “dear family” notes aren’t all complete yet, so I gotta hang in there until I’ve finished something). Thank you all again. I think you all are my Doper (God that sounds funny) angels.

Kemi, slightly less stressed today than the proverbial ticking bomb and you guys are to thank for that. Bless you all.

30

Just keep telling yourself this is bullshit, Kem. I grew up hearing from my parents all about how awful I was–ungrateful, selfish, ugly…whatever. It would always be couched with “we only tell you this for your own good…so you can change.” And nothing I did to change was ever good enough because as soon as I made one misstep, I got the list of all the horrible things I’d done since I was a fetus. I kept thinking that parents wouldn’t hurt their children on purpose, they wouldn’t say such mean and hurtful things if they weren’t really true. And that’s bullshit. Whatever your mother’s agenda is, you don’t top that list. The thing is, you need to put yourself above her on your own list and stick to it–that doesn’t necessarily mean cutting her out completely (although that may end up being the best solution for you), but you need to value yourself over her opinions of you.

31

Everything Lauramarlane said!!!

And a big cyber hug.

Also my email is in my profile if you need to vent to someone not involved in the whole thing. (not that the board isn’t a great place to vent!)

32

hopefool, I didn’t mean my question as a criticism. Your answer makes sense to me. You’e right, people do do things in their own time. When I had enough of my dad’s behaviour, I cut him out of my life. It took 32 years, but I finally had enough, and I haven’t spoken to him in almost 4 years now, and I haven’t missed him one bit. Yes, that is incredibly sad. He doesn’t seem to have missed me or my sisters, either.

33

Hopeful…comments:

Your stepdad should not leave the house. This is a BIG mistake men do when women tell them to leave. If she wants to leave, SHE moves out. Whoever moves out is at a large disadvantage in the divorce. He has to support himself and his ties to the house (and children if there were any) are weakened physically, psychologically and effectively legally.

You should tell him this. He doesn’t need to leave the house. She is the one that is leaving him so she should leave already.

Find him a good divorce lawyer. Get him to go see this lawyer. This man is a wimpy pushover and most likely will not do this on his own. He needs encouragement and someone to show him the way. His backbone may stiffen once he realizes he isn’t powerless.

Do things things NOW!

My heart goes out to you. However, neither of these two are your responsibility or your life. Do not get dragged down to far emotionally (or financially).

Good luck.

34

Hopefool, your first obligation has to be to yourself. You didn’t describe what kind of mental illness you have had, but it wouldn’t surprise me if you said that it was depression. It seems to go hand in hand with anger and an abusive parent. If it is depression, I hope that you will let us know. There are a few things that I would suggest.

I have great admiration for your compassion for your father. It may be that his almost totally passive nature will not change. But then, who knows? Maybe he can learn from this how strong he can be. Maybe you can help him to see that by setting a good example of what it is like to have strength in a relationship with your mother.

Somewhere along the way, you must find out how strong you can be. Your willingness to accomodate your mother and to continue this very destructive relationship reminds me of someone else in this picture. Can you see it?

It is crucial that you learn to set some boundaries with your mother. Your feelings of guilt and your feelings of having some responsibility to her are very normal. But that doesn’t make them healthy. Fight for the strength to set those boundaries on your terms or you may struggle with this same anger for decades to come – maybe even beyond her death.

I was in my teens when I first realized that I really didn’t like my mother. I was 33 before I was able to tell her off – except it was all in writing. I was 58 before I was completely able to draw the line emotionally. I’m 60 now. :slight_smile: She is ninety. I still “care” about her, but I am no longer her emotional victim. I see her twice a year and chat with her once a week on the phone.

To get to that point I had to give up all expectations of her. I had to give up trying to win her approval. I had to take control of our relationship by refusing to feel any guilt from separating myself from her. And I have to renew that control and draw on my strength every time that I call her or see her.

It is pitiful to be 58 before taking the steps I should have taken forty years before that. I know it must be very hard for anyone reading this to imagine a 90 year old having that much control over an aging daughter. I hope with all of my heart that you are able to take control while you are young.

Who can relieve you from your self-imposed sense of obligation?

Do yourself a favor and rent an old Bette Davis movie entitled Now, Voyager. It is a hopeless tear-jerker but you may see a little of yourself in it.

35

hopefool, I’m wishing you all strength. Sounds like your dad (and you too) will really need it.

36

Damn, hopefool.

Wow.

Speechless.

I have no advice but I think it says a lot about you that you’re willing to take in your dad. And I also think it says a lot about him, too: even though he’s not your bio dad, he’s been a good father to you. It’s hard, I imagine, to go into a marriage and be an instant parent.

I wish you the best!

37

lauramarlane - I repeat, we must be living in parallel universes or something. So many of the things you mention were told to me too and from many a year of therapy, I have a whole notebook filled with those negative beliefs of hers that simply aren’t true and never have been. And you are so right, that no matter what I’ve done (even if it’s been to follow her advice down to a T), it wasn’t good enough either or right enough or something. So, yeah, I’ve tried to learn to value my own reality over hers, but old habits sometimes die hard. It is an on-going struggle, but thanks for reminding me not to give up the fight.

tanookie - Big cyber hug right back at ya! And I just might take you up on that email offer when I’m feeling a little less overwhelmed. That’s very sweet and I truly appreciate it. Thanks.

featherlou - Oh, friend, no worries. I didn’t take it that way, just thought it’d do some good for me to make some clarifications. And what you detailed about your dad, well, I can see my mother behaving the exact same way if I cut her completely out of my life – you know, it’s my loss and she did nothing wrong, ever, etc., etc. But thanks for empathizing. The whole situation that many of us find ourselves in just plain sucks. Those folks should have either been sterilized or taken up a (non-harmful to others) hobby.

andymurph64 - Your comments have been spot on and the same things I’ve told countless friends who’ve found themselves about to be divorced. However, where my dad is concerned, he simply won’t listen (not to me anyway) and will do EXACTLY as he’s told by my mother. That’s been his role for 30+ years and even though he will owe her nothing now, he’ll still play the part for fear of making her mad or God only knows what reason. He certainly will not hire a lawyer for himself and he won’t allow or use one if someone else (namely me) did it for him. He’ll go the same route as always, hoping in vain, that they’ll stay together. Or together apart. Or something like that. It’s all he knows and could be classified as wanting, so that’ll be the end of that, at least from me. All I can do is offer unconditional love and support from here on out. Otherwise, she’ll be dictating the entire outcome to coincide with her wishes. But I do thank you for trying to help. You give wonderful advice and I’ll keep it in mind should the need ever arise again for anyone else I know. I guess at this point, just keeping myself sane will be the full-time job. ::: sigh :::

Zoe - Yes maam. One of my many problems IS depression and you are totally right, in that I do echo my father in some aspects when dealing with my mother. Fortunately, she doesn’t nearly get to me like she used to (and like you, it took a long time to get to that point), nor have any real control. The only instances when it happens is if I’m blindsided, like with this. Hell, even the untruths about my personality that she used to throw at me, completely out of left field, don’t faze me anymore. So, I know of whence you speak. And I haven’t expected anything out of her in so long, least of all decency, where it pertains to me that I can’t hardly remember a time before. However, I’ve been suckered into thinking she might show a modicum to someone else. That’s my mistake and from here on out, I’ll definitely know better. Thank you so much for sharing your situation and offering it as an example of me to get help with this now. I really am appreciative. I will be stronger than this and her. I mean, I have all these great friends on the Dope that she doesn’t, so that’s one step up for sure. Thank you and best of luck in dealing with your mom too. We can all use it, no matter what our age.

lel - Thanks so much! You have no idea how much I need that and I’ll tell my dad (when I get to see him again without Satan around) that a bunch of people he doesn’t know off in cyber land are rooting for him and wishing him only the best. :slight_smile:

SnoopyFan - Thanks to you too. Yeah, even though he’s not biologically mine and we certainly had our rough spots, I wouldn’t have anyone else. He is a good person and has always deserved so much better than her. But anyway, I guess we’ll just have to wait see how this plays out when my mother makes her actual move. I’ll be taking all the strength sent my way and saving in reserve until then. At that time, I’ll use it like gangbusters.

Thanks again to everyone, especially those who’ve sent me personal emails. I promise to get back to you soon.