I just need to share this story. I want any and all opinions and/or ideas of what i could do to improve the situation. My parents, who have been married for 44 years, are very old fashioned and were quite strict with me and my sister growing up. My mother has always been over protective and somewhat paranoid of most things. She had an irrational fear that if we did not follow every rule or do things exactly how she wanted we would get hurt. My dad allowed her to have complete control over every aspect of my and my sister’s lives. He never said a word and always took her side over ours. He once told us that he would support my mother even if she was 100% wrong, and he would never tell her if she was wrong. There was no winning an argument with her so he preferred to keep quiet and not argue. She has never admitted being wrong or apologized for anything, ever. Not in my entire life.
Now fast forward to present time. I am 38 years old, married for 12 years and have a 5 year old son. He is their only grandson as my sister has chosen to not have children and has moved to another state to get away from my mother. She harbors much resentment and barely speaks to either of my parents. There has always been tension between my mother and I as it is very difficult to communicate with her because she believes she is always right. She has hinted that we are bad parents with subtle comments, and has actually told family members that our son would be better off being raised by her. My husband has always been patient and calm around my mother (more so than myself), and he gladly helped them with home improvement projects, chauffeuring my mother (she cannot drive), and helping them out whenever they needed. And although my husband can lose his patience at times he has never done so in front of them. He is an awesome father and my son adores him.
On occasion my mother would babysit our son if we needed to have an evening out. She would fully dote on him and spoil him rotten, to the point that it would take us nearly a full week to get my son to behave right again. I understand grandparents will do that but she would let him have the run of the house with no discipline (completely opposite of my experiences as her daughter), and he would not behave for us when he arrived home. My mother refused to honor our wishes on what foods we didn’t want him eating due to some hyperactivity issues he exhibited, and she thought any decision me and my husband made regarding our son was the wrong one because it wasn’t what she would have done. (remember, she is always right). and my dad says and does nothing. He just tells me to not argue with my
Mother.
So here is the problem: my dad was admitted to the hospital for a minor heart related issue. He needed to stay there for 4 days. My husband and I live 5 minutes from the hospital and since my mom doesn’t drive it made sense for her to stay with us and my husband drove her to and from the hospital everyday. On the 4th day he picked up my mom and dad and they stayed at my house for dinner. I was working late that night but when I arrived home my husband told me that my mom freaked out on my husband because he was disciplining my son and his voice raised a little. She accused him of being abusive and that she had to leave because she couldnt be in the same house watching him yell at “her grandson”. So my parents left. That same night my husband called my parents to try to sort things out. My mom refused to speak to him but he spoke to my dad and told him that he apologized not for how he was disciplining but for my mon becoming so upset. But he said that it was his house and his son and he needs to be disciplined for bad behavior. We thought it was resolved.
Three days later my mom calls me up and tells me that my husband was being abusive to my son and she wanted to warn me about my husband. I told her she is wrong and my husband would never do anything abusive, verbally or physically, to our son. She said that she will only see “her grandson” if he wasn’t around. I told her no way! That we are a family and I’d she wants to see my son she needs to be at least cordial and respectful to both of us. She refused. I handed the phone to my husband as I was becoming enraged (my mother tends to do that to me). He tries to calmly reassure her but she screamed at him and hung up. I havent spoke to either of them since. It’s been 4 months. My mom did send me a birthday card a few weeks ago and then sent me another one at my work, which she has never done. According to my sister (who talked to my Mom briefly), she sent the 2nd card to my work because she thinks my husband is stealing my mail and reading my texts and he controls every aspect of my life! I wrote a letter to my dad for Father’s day stating how I felt and how i wanted them both in my sondid’s life. But my mom read the letter and told my dad it said nasty things in it and he told her to throw it in the garbage! So I let her have it in another letter stating exactly how I felt. She responded with “your dad and I need to stay away from both you and your husband to respect you both as parents”. But we still want to see our grandson. He will always be in our hearts". WTF?? What is causing all the delusions? And why is my dad allowing this to continue? I think I am more hurt by my dad. He has the ability to put her in her place and he won’t. So my son suffers since he hasn’t been able to see grandma and grandpa anymore. What do I do? Do I cut them off completely, or allow my son to see them? I cant fathom how any parent would be willing to never see their daughter or only grandson. Any words of advice or opinions would be great.
Your mom sounds cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. She doesn’t want your son exposed to his father’s abusive behavior? Maybe you should tell her that you don’t want your son exposed to his grandmother’s Borderline Personality Disorder. But I lack the tact possessed by most.
Absolutely do not let your son spend time with your mother unsupervised by yourself or your husband. Your son does not have the critical thinking skills to question anything your mother might tell him about you or your husband. He just could not comprehend that gramma would tell him something that wasn’t true.
Yes, it will be rough on him, but he doesn’t need to be exposed to that kind of venom at his age. You know from personal experience what it will lead to. Don’t go there.
Keep your son away from Grandmother except for supervised visits.
Can you call or see your dad alone, face to face, and tell him what you’ve said here? I think you need to, for your peace and so that he knows what you’re really thinking and feeling, not what his wife is feeding him.
“I’m sorry you feel that way, Mom. Take care.”
I understand that it hurts. It will always hurt. But your mother’s always been wrong inna head and your father’s never done anything about it: neither thing is going to change now.
For something you mention colaterally and which may come up with other people: make it clear to your son that “different homes have different rules”. My nephews know that in their house the TV is almost always on and there’s three TV sets (downstairs living room, upstairs den and kitchen) and meals in the kitchen involve having the TV on - you can talk to other people during ads, but the only people who can talk during the program are Mommy and Grandma B; in Grandma M’s house there is a TV and it gets switched off for every meal; in Uncle Jay’s house there isn’t a TV. Different houses, different rules!
-Please get “Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers” it was a great help to my mother when dealing with her mother.
-You have described a pathological case, not a problem communicating.
This leaped out at me. A few things:
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This particular man does NOT have the ability to put her in her place. I’m sorry. Based on an entire lifetime’s observation, you said he has always indulged her and never stood up to her. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him to change now that he is a grandfather, though I can understand why you want that. I know she is the problem, but I’m afraid he is too.
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Your son is five. He is not going to “suffer” if he doesn’t see his grandparents. I’m sure he picks up on your anxieties, but a five-year-old’s sense of time and priorities is such that he won’t really notice the change in visiting schedule until he has adjusted to the new reality.
To this total stranger, it sounds like you’re subconsciously using your kid as a carrot to fix the unfixable, and because you’re afraid of the feelings that would come with cutting contact.
Your mother is trying to eliminate your husband and take over your son so that she can keep things the way she wants it. I know you love your parents (even if they drive you nuts) but seriously, sit down and make a list of pros and cons of dealing with your parents, because from what you’ve written I can’t see any “pros”, and the cons are legion.
Short version: Mom won’t change. Dad won’t change. Kid is more important than parents.
Frankly, it sounds like he’ll suffer more if he sees his grandparents. Do you really want him to have to deal with all of the crap your mom deals out? If she can torment her own kids and husband, you bet she can do that to a grandchild.
I’d follow your sister’s lead, if I were you. How long are you going to put up with false accusations of abuse that may eventually escalate to her calling the cops on you? Meanwhile, your dad will just be meekly nodding his head and saying “yes, dear” to everything she does.
Your mom is freaking out because she has serious control issues and you are taking her control away. She doesn’t know how to live without it. You are also calling into question her entire child-raising technique. You are raising your child differently from the way you were raised…what if your way is better?
Don’t blame your father, he can’t help the way he responds and relates to your mother. His character in terms of relating to her has been formed over 44 years–it’s etched so deep he couldn’t change it if he tried. That ship has sailed, he should have done something long ago, when he probably had the wherewithall to do it. Dr. Drake got it right–they aren’t going to change.
You need to untangle yourself from them and not let them have such an impact on your life with your husband and son.
This is all so easy to say from the sidelines. My mother could send me into rages with just a few words. Both my brother and I had to estrange ourselves from her for periods of time just to retain our sanity and well-being (unfortunately he picked a time when she was making changes to the will and she decided to basically cut him out. He came back around and was good to her toward the end, but she never changed the will to put him back in, which ultimately was a huge blow to him).
This is such a horrible situation for you. Please please listen to the advice that has been detailed.
Your responsibility is to your son and husband and yourself. Your family is your priority and that also means protecting yourselves from your mother’s toxic influence.
If they are cut off from your son’s life you need to tell them that it is not you who has isolated them but their own poisonous influence that has cut themselves off.
Good Luck, though I suspect that you will choose to persevere with them a few years more
Wow, I just looked up that book. Thank you. I am not going to derail this thread to talk about my own family but I need to suggest it to my mother who is struggling with her own narcissitic controlling mother. (My mom is 70, her mother is 92.) It is so bad for my (very awesome and wonderful) mother right now I joked to her on the phone about kidnapping her and keeping her 3000 Kms away from her mother and the drama going on in my home town. Mom’s response? “That sounds wonderful. Please?”
As for the OP… Kids need stability and sanity, not that kind of craziness your mother is inflicting. Your sister probably has it right, be very far away. Supervised visits, and limit your son’s exposure to your mother. If you are not concerned about your husband’s behaviour then do not let it affect your family. My dad usually got maligned by my mother’s family for “keeping her away from us” No, he just tried to help my mom not get too involved with teh crazy. PM me if you want to talk more.
Only you can answer this: were those 4 months really all that bad?
Too late to reply but my Grandfather used to enable my Grandma too. He was a good man, and my Grandma has just become even harder to deal with in the 15 years since he died.
We take the extent to which my mother has gotten worse since my father died as a measure of how much he stopped her, either directly or because she realized he wouldn’t let certain things pass. The put-downs took place when he wasn’t around; the bruises didn’t start appearing until he was dead (pinches: “oh c’mon, I’m not hurting you!” “Mom, you’re leaving bruises show”; she hadn’t pinched me when he was alive).
The opposite of my maternal grandparents, where it was him who was poison and she’s gotten so much better since his death it’s both amazing and sad - sad because it would have been nice to meet this better Grandma many decades earlier.
Or to phrase things another way.
My Grandma is the controlling (but she does it by ending up in the hospital and my mother comes running) one. My mother keeps trying to be the good daughter. My Dad was the bad guy who kept his kids as far as possible from the craziness. And my brother and I are grateful.
I wish I was on better terms with and knew my Grandmother as a person. But I am mostly grateful I haven’t seen some of the crap my mother has, am not enmeshed in the dramas my aunts and cousins are in, and that my life has been pretty sane. I visit. I send cards, I go over and have coffee two or three times a year when I live in town and visit for a few hours when I am in the same city on a visit.
Your mother has a toxic personality. She has always been this way, and will always be this way. You are not going to change her. Don’t even try.
For your son’s sake, keep him away from your mother.
There is nothing wrong with your son not seeing your mother. My wife’s mother lives half way around the globe, and the children only see her once every few years.
Yes. I am starting to realize she is nuts. And she has a brother who is schizophrenic and needs tons of medication to function, and a sister who is practically catatonic on her psyc. meds. It is just she has always functioned over the years without medication and she never exhibited irrational behaviors to this extent. But thank you for your response:)
She is also spreading these horrible lies about my husband to my other relatives and I feel bad for my husband who is being made to look like some monster, which is the furthest from the truth. And yes, the last 4 months have been great without her. And my dad will never change. I guess I am grieving the loss of parents that I wish I had. They were never really “supportive” of either of us. And whatever my mom says is right. So I guess we don’t get the unconditional love that children should get from their parents. I think that is what hurts so much. Thank you all for your advice. I will definitely not allow my son to see her.
She’s always been this bad, really - a lot of behaviors that you grew up considering normal were not. And many (probably most but not all, there will be others as delusional as she) of those relatives know that she is this bad: there should be relatively little trouble from that side, but there will be some folks making sure that everything is all right and that it’s her who’s being bananas as usual.
It’s not going to be nearly as hard on your child, your husband or your Mom or Dad as it is on you, I’m afraid.
I don’t really see how Mom is delusional. She seems to have a pretty good grip on how to control/manipulate her relationship with your Dad. A situation they both seem happy with.
The delusions, I would hazard, are with you!
How is it not self evident that you cannot, (and should not), fix any of this? This is their twisted, dysfunctional mess. You are a player in their drama only as much as you choose to be. Your husband and child are exposed to this only as much as you insist. And you are delusional to believe that, ‘a relationship with his grandparents’, somehow trumps, an ‘emotionally healthy and stable’, model of love. The, ‘need’, for such a relationship is entirely a projection from you, neither son, nor husband would miss it, if you were okay with such.
You need to take a hard look at whether you value emotional stability, mental healthy environments, and drama free relationships more than your on going back and forth with your parents so you feel a dutiful daughter, honoring her parents.
Your sister could see how toxic these people are. The question is, why can’t you? And why don’t you value, the mental health of your family, enough to do, as she has done, insulating herself from the nasty?