What do I do about my mother? (long, probably whiny)

In My Humble Opinion
1

Those of you familiar with some of my other threads might have gleaned that I have a long history of fairly severe mental illness. I was diagnosed with depression at 15 and have spent the 10 years since alternating between therapy, antidepressants, and trying to deal with it myself. I was briefly hospitalized at age 17.

I’ve been struggling this year. Everything seemed to be coming to a head, so it’s back to therapy and medication to see if I can get some relief.

As you can see by the thread title, I don’t know what to do about my relationship with my parents, mostly my mother. I noticed during that hospitalization that my relationship was abnormal- one of my doctors tried the whole word-association thing with me, and the word I associated with mother was pain. Through personal reflection and with the help of therapists, I realized that my mother’s been inadequate in the areas I crave most from a mother- I want someone to talk to, confide in, seek advice and comfort from. I also realized very recently that I’ve sought mother figures out from a very early age (about 8 or 9). The mothers of my 3 best friends growing up have acted as my surrogate mothers.

I don’t have that now, since my friend long since moved out of her parents’ house, and though I still talk to her mother on occasion, it’s not like when I was 19 and spent most of my time at her house. So I lack the support, encouragement, advice, and interest in my well-being that these women gave to me. And I feel very lost.

Not only that, but my mother is a very real source of stress in my life. I don’t live with my parents anymore, but I see my mother frequently as I work part-time for my parents’ business. Just to give you an example, I went to work on the verge of tears recently, because I had just decided I couldn’t finish this semester and I needed professional help dealing with my problems. When I told my mom, she immediately started lecturing me about how I needed to sort my life out, you’ll never finish school like this, why can’t you just pull yourself together blah blah blah. I lost it. I was feeling the worst I think I’ve ever felt in my life, and instead of encouragement, or even a simple “I hope you get the help you need” or “That’s probably the best decision,” I get the same brutal litany of why I’m inadequate.

That about sums up our communication. Any interaction between us includes her reciting a laundry list of my failings, and how I need to shape up, etc.

My therapist recommended that I see less of her. No one’s parents are perfect, I know, and I’m sure there are many out there with mothers probably worse than mine. But combined with my, shall we say fragile mental state, it’s too much for me to handle. I spend enough time telling myself I’m a failure, I don’t need someone else encouraging that mindset.

My immediate problem is that I work with her. I’m desperately looking for a different job, now that I don’t have school to worry about I can work full time, but haven’t found one yet. I need to keep working there, even only part-time, because I have bills to pay and my only alternative is living with her when December 1st rolls around and I don’t have the rent.

But I don’t know what to do. If I finally got an interview today and got hired, that solves the problem of seeing her at work, but beyond that… I don’t know. Should I cut her out of my life entirely? I feel bad, because I think part of her genuinely cares, but she has her own issues, not least of which is her own screwed up relationship with her mother (I won’t go into that here, but suffice it to say that I see her constantly striving to gain the approval of and affection from my grandmother, and I’ve always resented my grandmother for that, much to my mother’s chagrin).

I’d like to explain things to her, but she won’t listen. I just saw her earlier, and she started in on the “why can’t you get your act together” bit, and I stopped her mid-sentence, saying, “I can’t deal with that right now.” She continued, I persisted, telling her that my therapist suggested I see her less because it’s so stressful and hurtful to me, but she kept it up. I even flat-out said, “Stop. That, right there, that you’re saying, hurts me. I can’t deal with it, I’m having a bad enough day as it is.” It continued even as I walked out the door, ending with a final “Stop it!” as I closed the door.

So, needless to say, our relationship is rather dysfunctional. Any advice, or even just commiserating, would be appreciated.

2

Cutting your mother permanently out of your life seems rather drastic. That said, there are posters on this board who have done just that and are happy that they made that choice.

But in your case, I think you should start by getting away from working for your mother, and then telling her that you need some space. Try not talking to her for 6 weeks. Or maybe 6 months. Build up your support system of surrogate mothers or therapists or friends, work on the rest of your life, and then contact your mother on your terms. Let her know that you can’t or won’t spend time with her if the time you spend with her is always so negative, . . .

And it’s ok–long term, probably–to put some geographical distance between you and your mother as well.

3

I think cutting your mother out of your life needs to be your absolute last decision, after you’ve tried absolutely everything else.

I think what you did earlier was perfect. I think you need to set some boundaries with your mother (e.g. “if you start telling me I need to get my life together whilst we are at work together, I will leave the office for 30 minutes”) and you need to explicitly explain these new boundaries to her. She’s not going to like it (because you’re asking her to change), but so long as you are willing to carry it through, she will learn and she will change if she knows what’s good for her. But you gotta be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better.

At the end of the day, it seems like she wants the best for you, she just doesn’t know how to communicate that positively. So it comes out judgmental, instead of supportive.

There are quite a few books out there about toxic parents. My husband and I have read several over the years, to help us cope with his manic depressive mother. How about checking your local library to see what they have?

4

I have a little good news for you - even if you don’t have the rent money on 12/1, any eviction process will take 30 days, during which you’ll be given several opportunities to come up with some money. That’s if you have a standard legal lease. I doubt that a woman as clever as you will have trouble finding a job that will suit you and pay your bills, and I mean that in all sincerity. I’d back it up w/ a hug but they don’t fit in zip files.

Also, I can commiserate w/ you about unsupportive folks; after my divorce my father once referred to my first (and failed) marriage as the ‘$2500 fiasco’, focusing only what it cost him for my wedding and oblivious to all it cost me in pain and heartbreak to lose my marriage.

Cutting your mother out of your life seems impossible; you probably hope that some day, by some miracle, she’ll turn into the loving mom she always should have been. You want to be there when it happens. I have a friend whose mentally ill mom was **always ** like your mom and even now still is, 35 years later. I wish I could tell you people change, but chances are she won’t. :frowning: You must do what you can to stay well, you’re the only you that you will ever have and there’s no getting away from you. You can get away from her.

5

One thing you might do is let go of your image of who she “should be”, and whatever relationship you have with her, have it with her. My brother has always resented my mother becuase she wasn’t a “soccer mom” type. She dislikes holidays and doesn’t do any of them in a big way, certainly never sending gifts or anything–she remembers birthdays, but may call as much as a week later. She’s very here-and-now, so while if you visit she’ll take time off work and chit chat and such (and cook and cook and cook), she calls maybe twice a month and rarely wants to talk for more than about five minutes, and certainly never asks to speak to the grandkids. Those sort of typical, traditional ways of showing affection just aren’t in her nature. On the other hand, there are a million wonderful things about my mom–she’s the most moral person I’ve ever met, she will always be there if she’s needed, if people need money they get money without complaint and it’s never mentioned again, and she gives her kids their independence and freedom–come if you want to for Xmas or Thanksgiving or whatever, and she’ll cook, but if you can’t make it or are busy, that’s fine too. She never trys to live our lives for us or offer advice unless asked or comment on the choices we’ve made. She never uses guilt or shame as a motivator. But one of my brothers just can’t stop comparing her as a grandmother to his in-laws and his internal ideal how “grandma” ought to be , and she always comes up short because he never notices the things she does much better than normal.

I’m not saying your relationship with your mom isn’t toxic and that maybe you shouldn’t step back–other people that know better than me will come and discuss that with you. But I do know that people are what they are, and there’s no point in being mad at them for not being different–you either accept them as they are or you move on. But don’t be disappointed that she doesn’t match your ideal. People rarely do.

6

Maybe not right away (in fact, probably not) would your mother be willing to attend therapy with you? It might be worth a try to see if explicitly learning ground rules for communication would help. Definitely get yourself stable and independent and give yourself the space you need first. What you describe seems like bad learned behavior (that she may have learned from her mother) and if she is at all open to it she can probably learn different behavior. Aside from what she said to you not being nice, it’s not like taking the approach she did is ever likely to work well for her.

7

Spot on. And you need to go one step further and follow up.

8

That’s pretty much what my therapist said. She said it’d be bit like the grieving process, learning to accept who she is and let go of my expectations for her.

It’s just that, in the mean time, I’d rather forgo the lectures and bitching about how much I suck. I’m sick of feeling like a failure- I know I’ve got untapped potential and I’m a bit of a latebloomer, but I’d just like her to realize that I’m trying my best to deal with my mental illness with no health insurance (which usually means no treatment) while living on my own and going to school too! Working and studying full time is a pretty tall order for people without mental illness, so cut me some slack, you know?

I’d be willing to give it a shot, but I don’t know what good it would do. Back when I was a teenager in therapy, we tried a few times. Now, this was mostly for my therapist to mediate when we were having repeated arguments- messy room, curfews, stuff like that, not so much the emotional and communication problems. But even then, my mother’s response to the therapist’s suggestions was nothing doing.

9

I think you’re doing the right thing, getting a new job so you can get out from under your mother’s thumb.

Whether or not you cut her out of your life is up to you. Certainly, I can see why right now having a relationship with her is not healthy for you. So go on your own, get the help you need, and who knows…maybe when you’re stronger you can handle a relationship with her. Or, decide you need to keep her out to remain healthy.

Maybe you can include that in your letter of resignation, “Dear Mom, I need to be away from you for awhile. You are not helping in my recovery. Maybe you feel guilty and don’t want to accept that your daughter isn’t happy. Maybe you don’t believe me. Either way, I need to get healthy and you’re not helping.”

10

Another question- what about Thanksgiving? My BF just informed me he won’t be attending, because in the exchange I had with my mother earlier today she started bitching about him, too (nothing unusual, she’s never approved of any of my friends/boyfriends), not realizing my BF was just out of sight but within earshot.

So… if I do go, I’ll have to go alone. I’m afraid it might turn into a shouting match, or me storming out before dessert, or perhaps even devolve into me singing “Lala I can’t hear you!” as I try to eat with both fingers in my ears.

11

She may have that perverse “snap out of it!” idea too. Mental illness can be scary for those around it too and it’s possible she mistakenly thinks she is giving you some kind of pep talk?? By that point you’re justifiably too upset to rationally explain it to her.

I agree too with the idea of mourning for what she isn’t and how it isn’t fair, and then moving on. Easy for me to say ;), I’m still stuck pissed off that my father is so GRRRRR. But I have to move on and decide whether I like him as a person and want to remain friends with him.

12

Under the current circumstances, I think the healthiest thing for you to do this year would be to enjoy a quiet thanksgiving at home with your boyfriend.

13

You have no obligation to go, especially if you would like to celebrate with your boyfriend. I had to check ahead of time to see if someone I don’t like will be at my friends’ house, because I don’t want to have to go through that kind of discomfort or hostility. If there isn’t some sense of friendship outside of the obligation, don’t feel you have to go.

14

My gut reaction is to say that Thanksgiving you will not spend with your mother. Spend it with your BF’s family, if you’re welcome, or serving at a soup kitchen if you’re not. There are better ways to spend a nice fall day than hating where you are and who you’re with. You deserve better than that, Roses.

15

It might help to not share things with her that you know will cause her to respond in ways that upset you. She’s not June Cleaver. She’s never going to BE June Cleaver. You have been resourceful in finding confidants in the past and you will figure it out in the future.

Focus on the positive, in both your life and in her. She can only be herself.

16

My BF would love to go to his family’s for the holiday, it’s just a 6 hour drive. We had originally planned on splitting the holidays, Thanksgiving here, Christmas there. Might have to change that, now, if we can afford the gas.

I’ve only met his father and step-mom, so his grandmother hasn’t gotten the opportunity to do the whole “Now, isn’t she the prettiest little thang?* Why aren’t you two married yet?” thing.

*He’s from Alabama. His grandmother sounds adorable on the phone, a proper Southern belle, you know.

17

Another thing: in any relationship, we tend to assume the other person is has the same attitude toward us as we do about them: cheaters assume their SO’s are cheaters, gossips assume people are gossiping about them, back-stabbers always see plots. Catty people assume everyone else is looking at them with catty eyes.

Your greatest issue with your mom seems to be that she is hyper-critical and insensitive and unforgiving of your particular weaknesses. While I have no doubt that this is true, is it possible that at times when the meaning of a glance or a statement is ambigious, you are quick to assume what she is really thinking is something critical or insensitive? If so, one way you can break the pattern is by trying to rearrange your own thought patterns to not be so critical of her–because if you look at her while thinking of all the ways she is inadequate as a mother, you are going to assume she’s looking back and thinking the same thing about you as a daughter. It won’t solve everything, but it makes an eventual olive branch more likely.

18

This is a no-brainer. Spend it with the BF.

Take the blood relationship out of it…pretend she’s a friend, and she’s being a bitch. Now, do you see where your obligation lies? Can you see you need to spend time with the people who make you feel good, especially since you’re battling depression?

Yeesh, RedRoses, she’s got you ten times of all screwed up, doesn’t she?

19

RedRoses, how old are you? I ask because we’re probably not too far apart in age (I’m 24.)

My opinion might be unpopular, but it’s based on my own life experience: let her go.

You just wrote an entire post about how much misery it is causing you to have her in your life, how unsupportive she is at precisely those moments you need support the most. People may say, ‘‘only cut her out of your life as a last resort,’’ but I say, because I think I get where you’re at right now, ‘‘Cut her out and see how you like it.’’

When I was 22 I FINALLY ended my relationship with my mother. I wrote her a 6-page letter confronting her for the the many ways she had hurt me over the years, failed to protect me, neglected me, abused me, allowed others to abuse me, ignored my true needs, etc. She responded with more of the same denial, so I said ‘‘forget it.’’ I made myself a mix tape full of songs that I knew would help me get through the pain of living without her.

And man, it was hard. Instead of feeling like a 22 year old letting go of Mom, it was more like I was 12 the way I reacted emotionally. I felt this feeling deep inside: I need her. I need to protect her, to take care of her. She’s so unhappy and she does the best she can and I just have to hold on with her because everybody else has given up. I have to be there for her, I’m all she has.

But deep down, I knew I had to take care of me. I didn’t speak with her for over a year.

And do you know what happened during that year? My mental health did a total 180. Within months I had gone from barely able to get out of the house, unable to attend school, hospitalized crazy codependent lady to doing all kinds of crazy crap, getting off my meds and able to return to school where I NAILED my final year with a 3.9 GPA!

Part of the reason this happened, I KNOW it, is because I was finally living my life for myself, not to try to please her. I let go of the need to have parents.

Amazingly, after this dramatic transformation, my Mom made one of her own. She divorced and asked to be in my life again. She was able to be with me at my wedding. Today I consider our relationship to be wonderful. And the main reason for that is because I will not let her hurt me, I know that I do not NEED her.

Years and years of denial, blaming me for things she and others did to me, being mocked for my tears, years and years of hell–and finally, when I was 23 years old, we were sitting in the truck, and she said, ‘‘I’m sorry.’’

But it didn’t mean anything. It was the most liberating day, to hear her finally say ‘‘I’m sorry,’’ and realize I was so far beyond my need for her that it didn’t matter. I was okay with her without her sorry, with or without her approval. We have a great relationship precisely because it’s a choice, not a need.

It’s true that you send yourself negative messages, but I have little doubt reading your OP where you got them from.

I’m just saying, taking some time from your mother could be the best thing you ever do for yourself. It was the best thing I ever did for myself, the frankly our relationship has grown leaps and bounds because of it. Don’t be afraid to cut the umbilical cord in the interest of your own health.

20

olives, I’m 25, 26 in a couple of months and totally freaking out because I’m quite far behind where I intended to be at this age.

I’d like to apologize at this point, a quick review of my recent threads makes me feel like a one-trick pony running around yelling “Look at me! I’m depressed! Gah! Look at meeeee!” :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ve lost a lot of my support rather recently. My best friend moved about 3 hours away for school, so I haven’t had as much of a chance to rant and whine and cry to him as I usually do. Plus, with this situation, I don’t feel as comfortable because of some of his attitudes. He’s depressed, too, but takes a dim view of toxic parenting. He expressed this by mentioning his hesitation to start group therapy, because he didn’t want to sit around with a bunch of kids crying about how mommy didn’t love them enough. I could have smacked him at that point, because he has such a great mom- accepting, supportive, and even if she doesn’t approve of decisions he makes (like recently, to get a tattoo) she loves him anyway. He doesn’t know what it’s like to lack that support.

I also recently stopped talking to one of my other best friends over a comment she made to my BF. Basically, she’s unfamiliar with mental illness- she doesn’t suffer from it herself, she has no family members who suffer from it, it’s completely unknown to her. And she’s the type who is incredibly stable- I’ve always described her as good to have around in a crisis, she gets shit done. But she doesn’t understand it, she can’t fathom that some people feel so bad they can spend a week in bed wishing that they wouldn’t wake up. So she made an offhand comment to my BF that when something goes wrong, I just say to hell with everything. Which, yeah, I do that sometimes when I’m having a nervous breakdown, I freak out a little. But it was the attitude behind that, that suffering from untreated depression isn’t a good enough excuse, snap out of it sorta shit that’s screwed with my head for years as I debated whether I should go back on antidepressants, or seek any help at all, because this really must be a lack of willpower because everyone around me can handle stress just fine. (I realize now that that is the wrong attitude to have, but I heard it from all sorts of people and it just reinforced my own idea that it’s just a character flaw. Also, what a run-on sentence that is!)

My BF has been really understanding, thank goodness. I warned him several times early on in the relationship that I was crazy, but he thought I was joking. :eek: Unfortunately he’s at a loss sometimes, he doesn’t know what to do. But he’s been supportive in small ways that make a big difference, like suggesting I apply for some management jobs because, duh, I have retail management experience. It seems silly, but I hesitated to apply for such jobs because it was stepping outside of my comfort zone (the two mangement jobs I did have, I wasn’t hired for a management position, it just kinda fell in my lap) and I was terrified I wouldn’t be qualified.

Bah. That was a really roundabout way of saying, “Sorry I keep posting all this mopey shit, I just don’t have many people left to talk to.”