Nothing that you’ve posted gives decent advice to the OP. Ranting about why corporate/employment culture is the way it is has nothing to do with what’s going to be best for the OP in getting a new job, and it has been explained to you repeatedly that it’s diametrically opposed. I’m not sure why you’re even in this thread at this point.
I spoke imprecisely. I meant that I have no way of knowing if I got an honest answer; I’m only getting one perspective. My nature is to assume people are being honest, particularly in an engineering job interview.
Why ask? I’m interested in the answer. I asked this question a few months ago and the the candidate said their current job was more IT tasks and they wanted to do more development. I assume it was true, but regardless I got some insight into what they wanted to do and what they didn’t want (which is also a question I ask).
Another reason to ask is that I’m human. I’ve been interviewing for 25 years, but still feel like I’m learning how to do it. I think it’s ok to ask questions even if they don’t lead anywhere as long as it’s respectful and appropriate.
To be honest, by the time I interview someone I want to want to hire them. I already like what is in their CV. If there is a flag like a short job stint, it’s worth a question.
You can interview me any time! (Except… I’m retired now…)
I’d think that while there is no “good” answer to the question, there are some very bad answers that the candidate could provide and it might pay to filter candidates that provide those ones.
IME, anything that doesn’t respect the duty of confidentiality of the previous employer is a much bigger red flag than a terse “it wasn’t a good fit”.
True, my husband is in a techish sort of job category and he did about 5 years for 2 different temp companies. Sucks but when you are in an industry that will hire to fill a set of product contracts then dumps the employees, you get gypsies.
[back in the late 90s I did about 4 years with temp companies, mainly because in a military area companies are reluctant to hire dependents because they move away after a short time, despite us having bought a place and settled in for the rest of mrAru’s military career. ] I learned I dislike temp jobs - I was dropped from a job that granted I was overqualified for because I was obviously after the managers job … [ok, so I managed machine shops - doesn’t mean I actually want to be a manager, I simply didn’t want the damned stress, I just wanted to be left alone to merge with my mill like a little borgling and crank out submarine bits.]
If I left a job [like the one where I observed the plant manager blatantly bribing the OSHA inspector] I usually used the didn’t fit the corporate culture bit - and when pressed, I would mention something like discovered that the 10 percent travel was actually 75 percent travel, or was expected to lift more than 25 pounds even though I have a medical requirement from my doctor, or hours were drastically different from offer letter/payscale was different from offer letter. [all of which have actually happened to me.]
I have more to say about this, but I’ll not continue in this thread.
I agree with Saint_Cad. Interviewer are comfortable with “not a good fit”. They also like phrases such as, “move in a different direction” or, “looking for a new experience and personal growth”. What you do NOT want to do is say anything negative about the company you are leaving. Interviewers view that as a sign you may be a malcontent or a negative gossip at work.
The travel item is a particularly good one, since it could be a deal breaker which would help both sides.
Back in the '50s and '60s my uncle was the only person I knew who got laid off from jobs - but he was an engineer in the defense sector, and that was expected. Now we’re all like that.
I mean, the stuff in the newspaper already is probably a tip-off. Acme corp has been a bit naughty.
Yes, the interview is not the appropriate place to vent out your dismay with a present employer. The new company you are interviewing with most likely knows that you are leaving for a reason (good or bad) and want to see how you can put a positive spin on it because that will reflect how you will handle the BS in your next position. No one wants to hire a complainer and there is a thing as being too honest when it isn’t necessary.
References!
To OP, I would go with Si_Amigo’s suggestion. You may have to explain why it took seven months to discover you didn’t fit. That’s a long trial period, but maybe not at your level.
If I’m hiring you I don’t want to waste seven months before you realize you don’t match. Maybe bring up the changes in management as a catalyst for your decision.
~Max
Acme Corporation has been accused of wrongdoing in the past. If you check you’ll find that Acme was eventually exonerated.
That makes me wonder if there’s a risk OP would be considered one of the perpetrators of the aforementioned naughtiness escaping the scene of their crime, rather than a victim seeking refuge.
This is good advice.
I occasionally interview people. I don’t want to hear about their negative experiences at work. Even if what they’re saying is true, I will wonder if they’re high-maintenance or prone to causing problems.
Maybe he’s confused because “present my employer an opportunity to find a better fit before they have invested significant time with me” is such a non-answer, it’s difficult to see what you find so “impressive” about it.
It matters because it speaks to the level of honesty the OP should be expecting and presenting of himself as he goes through his job hunt. If the expectation is that everyone is speaking in a sort of insipid mishmash doublespeak of euphemisms, canned responses, and corporate bullshit so some HR rep (who probably knows little to nothing about the actual position) can try and read the tea leaves to predict how much shit a candidate will eat before they quit, then the OP should just say whatever he wants, factual or not.
The problem is that if he needs to use insipid corporate bullshit to get hired, he will most likely be hired by a company that values insipid corporate bullshit in their people. Which leads to a very real possibility of his next job similarly being misrepresented and similar frustrations after accepting it.
Or, the OP can be honest (while still being political) and hopefully find a company that shares a similar culture of honestly and forthrightness, even if it takes a bit longer.
The real reason the OP is leaving his job is something like this:
As industry leader with 25+ years of experience, Acme hired him to take over management of their Widget Division. A role he was so committed to that he sold his company and moved across the country. Immediately after he was hired, Acme experience significant management restructuring as part of a change in Acme’s global strategy, resulting in his group being significantly deprioritized. After spending several months successfully building and upskilling his team and working closely with senior management, the OP realized that both he and the company are better off with someone else running the group whose goals and vision were more closely aligned with those of Acme. So the OP is now looking to leave on good terms for a role more similar to the one he and his original boss envisioned, while helping Acme transition to a new manager for the group.
What you are describing is what I’ve mentioned as being too honest when you don’t have to be. Minimal time should be taken in explaining why you are leaving your present employer and if using corporate double speak satisfies the interviewer then its a good thing, now you can talk about the upcoming job. Giving too much detail or dwelling on your departure from your present company just serves take you off of the short list for hiring. If they are satisfied with your response move on and talk about the new company and the position you are hiring for.
Well, I think a lot of it depends on the job, the industry and the interviewer. If you can get away with a short, vague answer. Great. But I think especially as you get into higher level positions, people are going to provide a bit more scrutiny as to why you are looking to leave. So you should be prepared to speak to it.
I interview a lot of people too. A lot of them do talk in that sort of glossed over, corporate recruiting guidebook manner. The problem is that while it is safe and inoffensive, it also makes it harder for them to stand out. IMHO it often feels like I interviewed some generic person who left their previous generic similar job for generic reasons to come work for us with their generic skill set.
That was my uncle (father’s brother). He ended up working for McDonnell Douglas waaaaaay back when they existed, as such. It was very stressful. He always felt under the ax, and he dropped dead from a heart attach in his early 40s.
A coworker left our company to work for an accounting company in the pre-Sarbanes Oxley days. She was a stickler and quit very soon after hiring on due to all the illegal activity she was seeing. She told her subsequent employer why, and she ended up working for them for at least the next 25 years (when I lost touch with her). Maybe, employers are looking for bland nothing responses a lot more now?
The problem here is that if you dump the bs on HR, it doesn’t matter since if you are lucky you’ll never see that HR person again even if you work there 20 years.
When I was hiring I was lucky in that HR set up the interview scheduling, coordinated the groups who were interested, and described the benefits. The benefit of working in a field where HR didn’t even know what the acronyms stood for was that HR never gave an opinion. From reading Ask the Headhunter I realize I was very lucky to have only worked with HR people who added value.
With any luck the hiring manager cares more about ability and not history, unless there are red flags.
“I am looking for a better opportunity”. I have heard great things about your company, etc etc. Do not say anything bad. Things like “they are moving my position to another state” or something like that (if true), are okay. Sure, tell them how wonderful the new job is and how you would love to work there. Nothing bad about the previous employer. Ever.
Yep.
Except anonymously on Glassdoor. That should solve any ethical issues.