Originally posted by nswgru1:
I don’t think anyone has drawn this parrallel, with the possible execption of curwin’s denial in the OP…
Parallel! Exception!
I will preview my posts!
I will preview my posts!
I will…
I’m not so sure about this. The current offensive in the West Bank started on March 29, two days after Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah announced his peace at the Arab League Summit. It was a plan that would offer normal diplomatic relations and a recognition of Israel’s right to exist.
Granted, I am not sure how seriously the Arab League considered the proposal as they did have some strong words for Israel at their meeting. Also, the Prince’s plan may have just been a political ploy on his part to gain favor with western nations.
But the idea of recognizing Israel’s right to exist was presented. That doesn’t seem to be angling for the “complete destruction of the State of Israel.”
The West Bank offensive began two days later.
curwin, my question is about Israeli-Palestinian relations in general. Not so much the political stuff or the bombings, but day-to-day interactions between Israelis and Palestinians. Are there even day-to-day interactions between Israelis and Palestinians?
The impression that I get is that it’s a bit like the Jim Crow South. Not in the sense that there are separate water fountains, but in the sense that Palestinians tend to do the low-paying, dirty jobs, that they can’t vote, that Israeli schools are much better, and that social interaction is generally frowned upon. This may not be the best analogy and I may be completely off-base, but I’d appreciate your take on it.
Originally posted by burundi:
I second this request. It is very difficult to form an unbiased opinion and determine the truth using just media reports. What is the straight dope?
The Saudi “peace” plan, is not a peace plan at all. It basically says that if Israel gives in to all territorial concessions demanded by the Arabs (all of the WB, Gaza, all of Old Jerusalem including the Jewish quarter and the Temple Mount), and if the Palestinians make peace with Israel, so will Saudi Arabia.
What? Besides demanding complete concession by Israel, it is conditional on a Palestinian Israeli peace plan. Well, if we had that, who cares what the King Saud thinks!
Furthermore, the Palestinians were offered most of the territorial concessions demanded, and rejected it because they wanted “right” of return. The Saudi peace plan is therefore, conditional on right of return, since it is conditional on a Palestinian Israeli peace agreement.
Allowing 4 million Arabs who want to destroy Israel to move into downtown Tel Aviv will mean the destruction of Israel, so there’s no real change of policy on the part of the Saudis.
Furthermore, the real problem with ANY peace plan that involves only Israeli concessions, is that YOU CANT NEGITIATE WITH TERRORISTS.
That is, even if the Palestinians agreed to some peace plan with Israel, and Israeli gave in to every Arab request, Hamas, Hezbolla, Islamic Jihad, Al Aksa Martyrs, and all the other Arab terrorist groups could decide after-the-fact to continue their terror bombing campaigns against the Jewish People.
A peace agreement signed by a terrorist is worthless.
Israel also has reason to be skeptical of whether Islamic religious traditions (which much of the Arab world is beholden to) even allow for the Saudi plan. In 1995, the Jerusalem Post reported that the mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdel Aziz Bin-Baz, handed down a religious ruling to the effect that Islamic law does not rule out peace with Israel. However, under pressure from extreme Islamic circles, the sheikh was forced to retract. What he had intended, he explained, was to declare that “peace with Israel is permissible only on condition that it is a temporary peace, until the Moslems build up the military] strength needed to expel the Jews.”
Such a peace agreement would understandable be worthless to Israel.
To summarize: The Saudi plan isn’t a plan at all, as it is conditional on a non-existant peace agreement with the Palestinians.
Any real peace plan will have to involve Israeli concessions that follow real action on the Palestinians that materially dismantles the terrorist infrastructure.
Well, some terrorists may come around, but Arafat has a track record of signing agreements, and then continuing on with agression. In fact, he signed several Agreements with the King of Jordan after his unsuccessful attempt at a revolution in that country, but went right on with his terrorist activities. Why would Israel be any different?
I see that cuwin is not able to reply yet, can anyone else take a stab at some of the lingering questions?