My soapbox needs the exercise...

Great Debates
1

[The following is an inexpert opinion. If you disagree, please address the ideas rather than the author. I didn’t expend this much effort just to piss you off. Please expend no effort to do so to me. ;)]

<Soapbox>

A few folks have stated that their life is better since they established a loving relationship with God. This might be misleading to some folks. Keep in mind that some interpret a better life as meaning more money, friends, sex, booze, etc. God is not a slot machine, at least in my experience, and I would doubt the testimony of anyone who claimed that knowing God (they way they do, they might add) will make you rich, prosperous, healthy, and immune from misfortune.

In my personal experience, relationship with God has a very positive effect. It does not shield me from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Rather, it allows me to keep a level head in adversity; to look over my situation and decide which of the alligators trying to take a bite out of my butt needs to get whacked first. It allows me to recognize that just because I have few material possessions, large bills, a small paycheck, and a son I hardly get to see for one reason or another, this does not mean my life sucks. (Well, perhaps it does, but it’s a level of vacuum I can endure and triumph over.) I have the strength and stubbornness to recognize that it’s better for me to fight for what’s right, in the right way, rather than just rolling over and giving up. It helps me recognize that the past is gone, the future will get here without my help, and what’s happening right now is only important in proportion to my ability to affect the outcome.

It helps me to recognize that no matter what someone else believes, I am only responsible for my actions and beliefs, not theirs. I show others what I believe by what I do, how I do it, what I say, and whether my words match my actions, not by following them around and ceaslessly prattling on about how “You’re going to hell in a hand basket and God will save you if only you will believe like me so wadda-ya-say you no good filty dirty drunken heathen now won’t you be blessed?” If they have questions, I’ll answer to the best of my ability, but they are free to disagree in whole or in part.

I believe that God really does give a damn, but not that he’s gonna grab you by the shirt collar and frogmarch you in the direction he wants you to go. It’s not my job to do that to you either. Besides, the direction I think you ought to go might not be the best one for you. It could be the worst thing for you. Just because I believe in something doesn’t mean I’m qualified to run your life. Of course, I expect the same courtesy from you, believer or not (to paraphrase Robert Ripley :)).

I think one thing that turns people off from Christianity (and other religions) is that people who want power over you will grab any tool that fits their hand and does the job. For some manipulators, that tool is religion; for others, politics; others, the Boy Scouts or the PTA. Don’t choose (or reject) God just because someone told you to.

Don’t ridicule someone else’s choice if they don’t choose the way you do. If you don’t understand something they believe, just remember; they don’t understand everything you believe either. As soon as you mock someone’s beliefs (especially closely-held ones) you change from someone they will listen to and possibly understand into an enemy. Depending on what they believe, their reaction will vary from “I’ll just ignore him” to “what can I do to utterly destroy this bastard?” In neither case will they sincerely be interested in anything you have to say.

Listen to one another. When you speak, weigh the words and ensure that what you say will be understood (and if they are not, that others are free to ask what you meant). Listen to others and attempt to understand. If you do not understand, ask questions. If you do understand and find the meaning offensive, try to figure out if the meaning was intended to be offensive. It speaks better of you to take no offense when someone mocks you than it does to take offense where none was intended. Allow others to believe what they will. If they change their minds, it will be due not to anything you said, but to what they decided in their own hearts and minds. You may have influenced their decision, but the decision is theirs alone to make, whether it pleases you or not.

</Soapbox>

–Baloo

DEBAUCHEE, n. One who has so earnestly pursued pleasure that he has had the misfortune to overtake it.
–Ambrose Bierce
[B"]Come Hither and Yawn…**

2

Well, Baloo, that was certainly wise. You are very insightful yet you post so little. Why?

BTW, are you trying to get under MY skin? It really seemed like you were singling ME out. I tired of crap like that!!!

Just who do you think YOU are anyway!?!?!?!

MR. PSYCHOLOGY? Hmmm?

So so subtle, but you can’t fool me. I know what you’re up to!

:wink:

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Baloo, I wish I had your way with words. I feel exactly the same way you do. Thank you for articulating it so eloquently.

Laughter doeth good like a medicine.

4

Pardon me, but I do believe this is the GD (Great Debates) forum, not RSIMD (Rambling Sermons I Must Deliver).

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Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed Mikan? :slight_smile:

Laughter doeth good like a medicine.

6

Baloo:

I invite you to join us in the Atheist Religion if you think you might be so inclined.

“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler

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I could not have said it better myself…salute to you…

“Do or do not, there is no try” - Yoda

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Lib said:

If he’s not familiar with the fact that this is a thread title, he might think you just invited him to join some weird religion of atheists. :wink:

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Hmmm…I’m sure it does lend psychological support, mainly because, well, who wouldn’t feel better if there’s someone up there making sure everything’s going to turn out alright.

However, I think truth is more important than happiness.

Giant Squid
“An atheist is someone with no invisible means of support”

10

David:

D’oh! Speaking of amphibolies…!

Thanks for clearing that up.

“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler

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Giant Squid:

But it turns out all right solely in the context of His perspective, and that is not necessarily a comforting prospect unless, of course, your concerns and His coincide.

“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler

12

Okay, Baloo, I believe this belongs in MPSIMS, where people don’t mind if you post a statement with no intent of argument, rather in the Great Debates.

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[Moderator Hat: ON]

Except that all proselytizing belongs only in Great Debates, and what he posted pretty well falls into that category.

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

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And that is the reason I selected this particular part of the SDMB to post this message. While the above post is not an attempt to proselytize (it’s more about tolerance, and why it’s important), I thought it best to put it here, seeing as it is written from a Christian perspective.

What you believe depends on what you know (correct information or not). It is only ethical to respect someone else’s decision to believe one thing or another, at least until they try to make you toe their line.

–Baloo

DEBAUCHEE, n. One who has so earnestly pursued pleasure that he has had the misfortune to overtake it.
–Ambrose Bierce
[B"]Come Hither and Yawn…**

15

Baloo,

As a non-Christian, yet a Theist, I appreciate what you have said.

It is worse to insite your opposing feelings and to make the other feel as though they are being attacked than it is to debate in a manner that gives point to the view you disagree with.

It’s not always easy to hold back on what may be construed as an attack, yet it is also the responsiblity of the offendee to take a step back and realize they may have misinterpreted what was said, the author may have said it in a way they had not intended.

I applaud your effort as a human to bring back the simplest yet best known way to converse. Bringing a sense of peace in a conversation, over something that could be explosive, is something we all should learn.

I am assuming I read your post correctly and this is the message you are trying to impart.

BTW, I sit here and start getting some Ricky Ricardo tune that starts with “Babaloo” sorry, but it struck me as funny and had to bring this up < giggle >

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techchick68: No offense taken (sometimes I use BobBaloo as my nick when “Baloo” is already in use by someone else). I chose Baloo because I like the character from Rudyard Kipling’s “The Jungle Book”, and because I liked the character from Disney’s “TailSpin”.

So what is a theist? Is it like a deist or is it something else?

DEBAUCHEE, n. One who has so earnestly pursued pleasure that he has had the misfortune to overtake it.
–Ambrose Bierce
Come Hither and Yawn…

17

Babaloo (gotta call you that from now on, hope you don’t mind I like saying it in my head < giggle >)

Pardon my length here:

Anyhow, a theist as defined by several organizations are those that believe in the existance of God but not the traditional religious references attached.

Meaning, I believe in a higher power called God. Some interpret this to being a Universal Intelligence among other interpretations, but the typical religions are not a part of it.

To help you further understand, if this is even part of your wanting to know, I believe that things happen for a reason. I am not particularly religous but am spiritual. I ask God, talk to God and pray to God but out of the context of traditional understanding.

I believe many of the things you believe as a Christian but I also believe a lot of the things that other religions teach. Now keep in mind this is only relating to me and not neccessarily others that may be classified as Theists.

Growing up I never had a specific religion to follow. I was baptized in a Congregational church at 8 months. My mother and father would send us kids to Sunday school, but never attended church with us.

My grandparents used to take me to the First Presbyterian church when I stayed with them. Oddly enough, I enjoyed what the pastor said, he did it in a way that was not preaching but helping us understand what we are going through as humans. To this day, I have a lot of respect for Pastor (I think that’s right) Stevens. My grandfather’s memorial is the sign that confronts people who drive down the street as my granddaddy loved his church.

I used to go to church with my friend’s family who were Catholic, and have even taken in communion.

My parents (step-mom and dad, mom died when I was 15 and never had a funeral) are very Christian now, a basic Christian church, but I never felt the church was for me. I find too much in the Bible that I disagree with and also, knowing that it was written by humans I find the words to be mortal, not by a God that loves and cares for all humans…but that’s a different thread.

I was once an atheist. I had many things in my life to turn my back on the existance of a god. Then I became an agnostic, then I realized there is more to life than atoms and energy. I realized there is more to life than living day to day and that there is more than random mathmatics that creates what is created in our lives.

But as any non-atheist can appreciate, it took more than an understanding of this to make me believe this way. There was no pivotal moment that changed my thinking, it was a feeling deep inside that made me believe that God, no matter the interpretation, exists.

If my life is any example even if I have a long way to go, I know the existance of God. Without that acknowledgment on my part I would have killed myself in a serious depression.

Okay, I have strayed, but you asked and I wanted to give you more insight than a simple sentence.

And even though our beliefs are different in our religious views, God bless you. This is from the heart and the soul!

18

Now you have me thinking…I am looking through the 'net to see what others would view me as…arggh, maybe I have my terminology wrong. I will come back if my “theist” analogy is incorrect.

Remember I was once an atheist and an agnostic. The term I quoted may be wrong all I know is what I believe.

19

Okay, here’s my internet findings on diest and theist.

Maybe a new posting should be opened on this topic, but for now I will post it here.

Deism is defined in Webster’s Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1941, as: “[From Latin Deus, God.Deity] The doctrine or creed of a Deist.” And Deist is defined in the same dictionary as: “One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason.”

AOL allowed me to research Theist via Comptons Encyclopedia, and maybe this is more my truth, bare with me here, AOL wont let me copy and paste grrrrrr:

Theism, philosophical and theological belief that all things are dependent on and distinct from a supreme being that may be refered to as God; rational approach to question of the existance of God based on evidence of human experience rather than revelation; commonly views supreme beings as caringly guiding the world; not necessarily tied to any religion, but often developed in a religious context.

Although some may see the same things, I don’t. I see very different things. I don’t reason, I base my knowledge on experiences that I have had, thereby splitting the two from one another.

As I stated before, I do take parts of religions and see a part of what I believe in each which suggests much of my beliefs are developed from specific parts of thos religions.

If I am wrong, I would like to know. I would like to see if anyone disaproves of the line I have drawn in regards to theisim versus diesm.

< boy, I need sleep! >

20

Can’t let this go…for some reason I sounded unsure of myself which is a bad thing, but here’s a link to Britanica. It really does explain the difference:
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,117391+1,00.html