I cannot provide specific examples due to confidentiality, but one thing bullies are excellent at is using the system to their advantage. They will never bully where they can get caught, and given that they’ve spent their entire childhood lives avoiding getting into trouble, they know how to put their victims in a situation where retaliation will get THEM into trouble. And often, their parents are of the “my precious snowflake can do no wrong” mentality, so if the bully happens to lose a fight (or even just get roughed up a little) and the school chooses to do nothing about it, their parents will burn up the phone lines with school administration and the prosecutor’s office until charges are filed. Not just administrative dicipline, as astro put it, such as suspensions and expulsions, but actual juvenile delinquency charges. And if you want to protect your child, you have to realize that this is part of the equation now, for better or for worse. I’ve seen it in both suburban and inner city schools. Back when I was in high school (which really wasn’t all that long ago in the grand scheme of things), we wouldn’t have dreamed of having the police involved in a school fight. But that’s the way things are now, and parents need to know that.
A parent is crazy not to file a report, meet with school administrators and teachers, and/or contact police if necessary. It’s called covering your ass, and you most definitely want to do it, esp. if you are also going to tell your kid to fight back. You have to document everything, including the fact that the school was informed of the bullying and it didn’t stop. Yes, take pictures of the bruises. If your kid really loses his shit and breaks the other kid’s nose, you want some evidence that he was also being physically harmed and his outburst is justified.
As a teacher, I have to agree with this. Most of the bullies I’ve encountered have been Mommy’s (and Daddy’s, when there is one) little angel, who could do no wrong and who CERTAINLY was being wrongly accused of bullying. We had one boy break another boy’s jaw without the other boy even laying a finger on him (yes, you read that correctly; it didn’t happen on school property) and his parent still protested that he was somehow innocent and should not be suspended. This was a kid with a long history of abusive behavior towards other students, but his parent wouldn’t hear it. That is usually the case, which is why I would not recommend shantih contact the bully’s parents. Let the authorities contact them.
Absolutely, but IME, the bullying usually does not take place in the classroom. It happens in the halls between classes, on the bus, in the gym locker room, and in the cafeteria/on the playground at lunch. Bullies are sneaky and rarely attack other children in front of adults in obvious ways. If they did, the problem would be much easier to solve.
Adults can and should be proactive when they hear about bullying. A kid told me that another kid was punched in the face by a known bully at lunch. I went to the class where the kid was, pulled him out, and sure enough, he had a bruise on his face. It happened in the lunch line and no adult saw it. I had him report it and the bully was suspended. This did not end that bully’s career by a long shot, but at least the boy who was cold cocked knew that there was at least one adult in the school who was not going to ignore his abuse or tolerate it.
The culture of every middle school in America is rife with tweener violence. It’s part of their natures at that age, and what we can do is the best we can to make it so that bullies are disciplined. However, you are fighting against the tide, and it requires constant vigilance.
What I would tell my son is to be prepared to defend himself verbally if taunted, and physically if he is threatened physically. However, I would tell him that there will be consequences for hitting. The school could well decide to suspend him, and he better be sure that there’s no other way to handle it before he throws a punch. If he can honestly tell me, with a clear conscience, that he had no other choice, then so be it. Take the suspension and consider it a price worth paying.
However, there are some kids who just do not want to get into physical fights, period. I agree with Le Ministre-- you don’t want to force a gentle, shy kid, or a small, weak kid to discard his better nature to throw what will likely be an ineffective and half-assed punch at someone with much more fighting experience. What will likely happen then is that he will get his ass kicked, which will only make matters worse. As much as we want to think that everyone wants to beat up their bully, some kids truly would rather just be left alone. Those kids need help too, and it’s the parents’ and teachers’ job to help them. Not everyone is an ass kicker, or has a secret ass kicker inside them waiting to break out.
This matches my experience entirely. There is this cliche that bullies are stupid and lunkish, lacking in social skills. My observation is that they are canny and clever at avoiding blame and creating plausible deniability. And are usually overparented/coddled rather than underparented/ignored.
I’d express my displeasure to the principal and ask him/her to pass the information along to the parents of the bullies. I say that in part because you’d establish that you contacted them via him…otherwise maybe they’d later claim you never called etc. and it would be your word against theirs.
Before talking to the principal, consult the police and let the principal note that you’ve done so. That will show the principal that you’re already serious because actions speak louder than words. If he’d be so kind as to relay that to the parents, great. Some parents, if they get the idea that you’ll involve police or the courts, will discipline their kids.
I say this because I remember doing some half-assed stuff myself (not bullying, but other half-assed stuff) as a kid. Believe me, on those occasions when the information got back home, I stopped doing it.
I’d put yourself in their situation, I guess. Sure, sometimes kids do go off the rails and it can turn into Lord of the Flies. If the parents still don’t seem to care or if the bullying doesn’t stop, then you can go up the chain to the school board etc. if you need to. If the principal knows you’re willing to do that, I’ll bet you’d have his/her undivided attention. Parents complaining to the school board = “Maybe the principal isn’t doing his job effectively.”
I also like the idea of self-defense lessons for the long run.
I am 46, & went through this cap every day from Grade School through my High School.
Like Transistor Rhythm, I am scarred to this day. Unlike him, I had, quite literally, more than a dozen different guys bullying me, every year.
I considered suicide.
I skipped Graduation, taking my diploma through the mail, to avoid these people for one day.
No amount of fighting back solved the problem.
Parents & school authorities must get involved, to deal with the problem.
Isn’t this the fallacy of the excluded middle?
I didn’t sleep most of 5th grade because I was getting hassled by a jock, this girl towered over me, she and her cronies made my life hell. My mom went through proper channels, talked to teachers and the principal - that was ineffective and embarrassing to boot.
My dad’s methods were crude, he suggested that I tell them to fuck off or knock them on their ass. He showed me how to throw a punch and guard my face.
Mom was understandably displeased but my dad was right. Cussing and fighting wasn’t the classy route but it was effective and it gave me a valuable reputation.
As others have pointed out, your son could get in serious trouble for fighting. Find out how much trouble he can get into for defending himself and then lay it out for him. He’ll have to make reasonable determination for himself.
I feel for you and your son and I hope things get better for him no matter what you decide.
I agree with those who have said 1) Document it in writing, 2) Take pictures of the bruises, 3) Write to the principal immediately about it, and 4) If it happens ONCE more, call the cops.
Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
In this order:
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Talk to the school/principal (if 1 fails, go to 2)
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Talk to the parents (if 2 fails, go to 3)
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Talk to the police (if 3 fails, go to 4)
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Hire a couple of 16 year old boys to beat the daylights out of those kids and have them warn those kids to never touch him again else it will be worse next time.
(…4 never fails, it always works )
I can testify from personal experience that #4 worked beautifully for us. The last thing that a 12 year old bully wants, is to get beat up by a 16 year old. Have the 16 year olds come to the houses of the 12 year olds, so they make sure that the 12 year old understands that they know where they live, they cant get away, and that they will be back if it happens again.
The one thing that bullies clearly understand, is for THEM to get roughed up. It works. They dont like the shoe on THEIR foot.
(I like your #5 though)
In a less litigious time, I think this sounds good, but now? I’d be really scared that I’d end up in court for hiring thugs to beat up a kid. And I’d be worried about the 16 year old that I hired being brought up on assault charges. If you go this route, I’d be very specific with the 16yo that he NOT GET CAUGHT doing this.
Also, RE fighting back, I think self defense classes are more to-the-point than martial arts classes. Martial arts might work if you’ve got a year or two to learn to fight, but this is immediate, and I think learning real street fighting skills is more important than learning balance and flexibility and and pretty, dance-like routines.
Good luck with this, it sounds like a tough situation.
Your son has to fight the bullies. This is really the only solution that will be effective, at least in my experience. But all the martial arts classes in the world won’t help him unless he actually has the mental resolve to fight the bullies. It doesn’t matter so much whether he can actually beat the bullies, only that he will put up a fight.
That is completely wrong.
Bullies do what they do because they are unhappy with their own lives, for whatever reason, and the only way they can find happiness is to make others miserable. They pick on people that they think will let them get away with it.
Step one to getting them to leave your son alone is to teach him to immediately respond to an attack with a LOUD verbal response. He should use profanity, such as yelling “KEEP YOUR GODDAM HANDS OFF ME, YOU SON OF A BITCH!” The idea is shock value and to draw immediate attention to the action of the bully, especially from teachers.
This usually will be enough to deter most bullies. If it doesn’t deter the two attacking him, the next step is for him to get physical. The simplest technique will be for him to pick one of the bullies and hit him hard on the nose with the heel of his palm, again yelling at the top of his lungs as above. Hard kicks to the knees will also be of extreme value. He needs to “raise the bar” so that they will go pick on someone else to get their jollies.
I strongly advise that you enroll your son in a traditional martial arts school. If you will PM or email me your zip code, I’ll see if there is a school in my style of Taekwondo near you.
The last time I had a go with a bully in High School it was because I stopped him from bullying someone smaller than myself. For the next week I got pushed or shoulder butted in the hall which culminated in a very verbal public display followed by a punch to his stomach hard enough to lift him up. He didn’t go down and managed to tag me in once the face but that was the end of that.
Make it public, make it loud, make it hurt. You don’t have to win a fight, just make the process painful for the other person.
Insert your favorite martial art here.
Nobody had gangs in their schools? I would have been killed for fighting back.
Gangs don’t do repeated bullying and they usually don’t go to school. However, siblings of gang members can be real dicks.
I would make sure the bullies are not connected with organized crime before fighting back.
Just my two cents.
I was thinking the same thing. Did y’all guys live on the set of “The Wonder Years”? 
At my middle school the biggest bullies were the low on the totem pole gang members who were usually ugly and couldn’t get girlfriends. If you were going to punch them, you got to be ready for multiple fights with different guys of different ages (sometimes at the same time). This means you have to recruit your own group and not stray from them for a while. I remember in 8th grade one guy getting me and 50 other guys to all wear red shirts after he got in a fight. In 9th grade we were recruiting these 20 something steroid freaks down at the gym to come hang out with us after another alteracation. I got lots of stupid gang stories, lucky for me, they did not bother me much (other than one shirt pull, two knife and one gun incident- ah middle school). My point is that things aren’t always neat and clean as with the “I just punched my bully in the nose and he never bothered me again” stories.
Agree that it may muddy any pursuit of official sanction, which is why physical self defense should only be exacted in the immediate aftermath of an unprovoked assault.
As to why the bully’s retaliation is not justified…if his initial assault was unjustified, then so is any retaliation to self-defense.
While it’s possible that slantih’s son is a pacifist, he hasn’t explicitly stated as much, and I find it doubtful; rather than meekly accepting ongoing abuse, pacifists will happily pursue non-violent means of conflict resolution, and so far that isn’t happening here.
Before I started fighting back, I wasn’t any kind of pacifist; I just didn’t realize that fighting back was an option, and that I would have the support of my parents if I chose to do so. As I mentioned upthread, fighting back was not at all the easy way out for me. Rather, it was a traumatic thing each time it happened - not because I was violating some personal moral code - I wasn’t - but because for a non-assertive person, punching an attacker in the face was an extreme (even if fully justified) act of assertion.
I would never recommended this method, but it worked for my nephew. We found out he was getting picked on, my son went to his school (He was 16 at the time and this was his old school). He chatted with the teachers, buddied up to his cousin after school who pointed out the bullies. All my son had to do was put his arm around his cousin, walk over to the little jerks and inquire as to whether there was a problem that he needs to help work out.
Issue over.
Sorry, but you are talking to another lawyer here, and you could certainly provide considerably more info without coming close to violating anyone’s confidentiality.
And I could provide plenty of specific examples in which a party’s claims of confidentiality essentially meant they had nothing.
No reason the bully should be able to work the system better than the victim. That is why the victim’s parent ought to get written complaints on file, demanding that the child be protected. Build the record, and as a parent I’d be happy to stand behind my kid afterwards, as well as bringing the school and anyone else conceivable into any lawsuit for failing to protect my kid after having been notified.
Probably, but I’d rather err on the safe side, especially since it’s not exactly difficult to figure out who I am. As for the rest of your post, you and I don’t disagree at all…but it’s really tough as a parent to see your kid go through juvenile court for something that isn’t their fault. Remember, self-defense is an affirmative defense–you can still be charged with assault even if you were defending yourself. Or, more likely, BOTH kids get charged with disorderly conduct, regardless of who the aggressor is. To give a little more info than I probably should, I had a case last week where a kid was charged with disorderly conduct after being hit by a kid and retaliating–the police report was clear that my client was not the initial aggressor. I got it dismissed, but the kid and parent still had to miss school and work to come to court, and had there been a different prosecutor on the case, I may have needed to set it for trial.
I’m glad I was not the only one thinking this.