What? So the legends of Buddy Hinton and Scott Farkus aren’t true? Say it isn’t so!
People don’t think the term “retaliate” would ever enter a bullies mind?
Personally I get pit level, well deeper than pit level, angry reading bully threads.
What is upseting me here is the large number of people who give advise on how to change your kid so the bullying stops.
There is nothing wrong with the child being bullied.
Blaming the victim is invalid in a case of bullying.
The kid who needs to change their behavior is the bully.
Bullies are usually pretty smart and don’t pick on targets when in view of teachers or other adults. They will pick on targets with other kids around as most kids won’t interefere.
Teach you kids to stay in view of teachers or adults, tell the bully to “stop” when being taunted or touched, and then to tell the teacher when problems occur.
The school must be informed as it is one of their functions to prevent it from happening. They have to be alerted.
Don’t advise you kid to repond physically. Bullies don’t pick on capable or physically or socially savvy kids. Bullies are smart enough to make sure your kid is the one who will get in trouble and punching the bully in the nose will ensure it’s your kid getting in trouble- even legal trouble.
If your kid has bruises, he is being physically assaulted. Start with the school staff ASAP.
I don’t think anyone here is blaming the victim, or suggesting there is something wrong with him.
What “changes” do you see being suggested here that upset you so?
“Tell your kid to fight” is suggesting a change, because most kids would fight if they were so inclined, given the provocation to which the OP’s kid has been subjected. If someone is pinching you until you are bruised and you don’t retaliate, then you’re probably not the type who would. Some kids just do not have it in them, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to push a kid like that to commit violence, or to make him feel like he needs to become a violent person in order for his abuse to stop. Some kids just need the parental fiat to go ahead and hit a bully, but some kids will never be that type, and those kids need protection too.
My son had an issue with another kid. My son made sure that the next incident happened in full view of one of the playground monitors, and took a fall while at it (kid liked to push / punch, so my son figured out where a monitor was, took the punch, then fell down with a loud noise). Other kid was busted.
I did not teach him this - he learned it from watching soccer and basketball.
I agree with that…my little brother was seriously bullied in the days before this was taken seriously and it scarred him for life.
When my nephew ( above mentioned brother’s son ) was in Junior High, his wimpy physique attracted the attention of several bullies. After being picked on a few times he beat the crap out of them.
His parent and grandparents and I were all incredibly thrilled and relieved when we heard this although we couldn’t show him how incredibly thrilled and relieved we were.
Well, actually there might be specific things that a kid can change that will make them less likely to be a victim. In my kid’s experience, it seemed he was not adept at “reading” other people - which appears to be quite common among bullied kids.
Sure, bullying is wrong. But I don’t see anything wrong with addressing such a situation on more than one front. Practically, your kid’s immediate goal may not necessarily be to stop the bullying. Instead it may be sufficient in the short term for the bully to pick on someone else! So why not take some easy steps to ensure you aren’t the easiest target on the playground?
So is telling your kid to go to the authorities, or telling him to report every single incident to his parents so it can be thoroughly documented, or telling him to use wit so as to deflect a bully’s verbal abuse. So is any course of action we suggest.
Growing up involves being encouraged by your parents to try different things, sometimes things that are out of your comfort zone. Granted, it’s not reasonable to expect (for example) a pathologically shy kid to take the lead in the school play. Likewise, it’ll be up to the OP to determine if physical self defense is within the realm of possiblity for his son, or whether it’s way too far out of his son’s comfort zone.
It’s also a worthwhile life lesson to learn that sometimes dealing with a problem means doing things that you find uncomfortable, or that aren’t in your basic nature, or that you feel you shouldn’t have to. Sometimes that’s unfair, but that’s life, and if it solves/mitigates the original problem, then it may be a change worth considering.
You don’t think there’s a fundamental difference between asking a kid to tell his parents that he’s being physically harmed, and expecting a basically non-violent, non-aggressive kid to punch someone in the face? I know it’s hard to believe, but there really are some people who do not enjoy violence, who cannot bring themselves to hit someone, or who really are too scared/weak/ineffectual. Maybe the kid just knows his limits. In any case, a person disinclined to violence is probably going to be really bad at it, increasing the likelihood that he will get his ass beat seriously. Why would you put your kid in that position?
Of course it’s up to the OP if she thinks her son will be capable of or interested in defending himself physically. But if he isn’t, he shouldn’t be pushed to do it, or made to feel inadequate if he can’t or doesn’t want to. I would not feel good about “encouraging” my kid to commit violence if he seemed disinclined to it or not capable of it on his own. It seems like the wrong thing to do IMO.
First of all, I think it’s a big assumption that violence is going to solve the problem. That’s the story book ending for a situation like this, but that’s not always how it works out. If you push a kid to throw a punch and it’s ineffective, he will likely have made matters worse for himself, in both the short and long term. It really depends on the kid, and only the OP knows what her kid’s temperament and physical capacities are. But this unilateral endorsement of violence as the ideal solution is ignoring some realities IMO.
shantih–you still there?
Nitpick: It was “Scut,” not “Scott.”
I know, weird…who names a kid “Scut”?
I didn’t grow up on the set of “The Wonder Years,” but I remember on Andy Griffith when OP got picked on and finally fought back.
Of course, Opie’s pretty young in this episode. Major harm was unlikely. Kids can pack weapons these days. :eek:
In the best of all worlds if a kid was really in over his head, the authorities would handle it, the parents would step in if needed, yadda yadda. But, I’ve also read “Lord of the Flies.” And “Deliverance.” I wish I’d taken karate or some martial art. The discipline and knowing when to fight and how to fight, could be useful even as an adult. Say when wandering into the wrong part of town or after a natural disaster…
Could some people in this thread making sweeping claims about what motivates bullies and what works against them please cite some fucking research?
I’m sorry. You must have thought you were in the General Questions area of the forum. This is the In My Humble Opinion section. Members are free to give their personal anecdotes as replies.
Sarah Palin. Duh.
I didn’t say they are required to cite some fucking research. I asked them “please” to cite some fucking research. So your reply misses the mark.
I’m extremely grateful for all the input. This is all so upsetting on so many levels, and I appreciate the different perspectives.
My inclination is to go into the meeting with the teacher on Monday with the intent to hear him out on what he’s done and what the next steps are, and to ask directly how my son can defend himself should this ever happen again without creating trouble for himself with the school. I also want to see if there’s any possibility of the two bullies being transferred into another class. To give a bit more background, this class has had a problem with bullying for more than the last year and the school administration has been involved. The bullies are known. Also, there was some reshuffling at the beginning of this year when they dissolved one of the classes on this grade level and my son’s class got some extra students, which brought the number of kids to 34, which is just over the limit. Why not solve two problems at once by reducing the class by 2?
I also want to ask what more would need to happen before these two get their loser asses expelled. I found the school’s behavior policy online, but while there’s a world of good stuff about respect and courtesy and kindness, it lacks anything about specific consequences. I want to know how seriously the school takes its responsibility to keep a safe and nonharmful atmosphere for the students in its care.
I’m taking to heart everything that’s been said about teaching my son to defend himself. What I’ve told him is that the trouble with being physical in retaliation is that it moves the situation from ‘He was picking on him’ to ‘They were fighting,’ and he doesn’t deserve to get into hot water over someone else’s bad behavior. I gave him a tip about how to knock an offending hand away without it being an aggressive move, and to say something loudly to the bully telling him to stop, using his name, and attracting the attention of an adult. Honestly, with all the hell I had to deal with in my own junior high years, I never had to defend myself against physical bullying, so I just don’t know what else to tell him. I’m going to look into local self-defence courses and see if he can’t attend with a few friends so that they’re all prepared to stand up for themselves.
(By the way, Clothahump, thank you for the offer, but I’m an ocean away, so it may not be possible for you to check out local martial arts schools. I appreciate it, though!)
About his friend: this is a truly upsetting situation. His friend is Korean, small for his age, super-smart to the point of arousing jealousy, and has a family that is extremely busy running a restaurant. His parents don’t have a strong command of the language, and he is often left most of the day with older siblings. He has said that his older brother hits him. We’ve already told the teacher what our son has told us about his friend being roughed up even worse than him, and we are going to go in on Monday with guns blazing on his behalf.
I feel like I’ve spent my son’s entire life dreading this phase, and now that it’s here, I’m just sick to my stomach. This is the sort of thing that can leave lifelong scars – look at all of the testimonials to that in this thread! – and I want to help prevent that as much as I ever can.
CSI notwithstanding, it’s almost always a good idea to get photos of physical injuries. The bullying is less likely to be treated as he-said-he-said if there is documentation of actual injury.
As for letting the kids hash it out themselves, that’s a non-starter, unless it’s mediated by an adult in authority. Some kids, especially kids of the “precious snowflake” variety, have no understanding that their actions have consequences. (That’s true for some adults, too.) The bully’s victim can’t give consequences; an adult in a position of authority can.
We already have. What motivates a bully not to pick on you is getting his ass kicked. That comes from the personal experience of people who stood up to bullies.
I actually didn’t see this before I started typing my reply, which reveals more about my typing (and possibly thinking) speed than I am comfortable sharing. 