He has cancer and is in the last “stages”. It started in his colon and has spread to his liver. He is weak and very depressed and thinking about suicide. He asked me to bring him a razor blade. I am still in shock. He has been like a father to me growing up and he has helped to raise my oldest son. I can’t even begin to think about him dying “that” way-I still can’t accept that he’s going to die at all. The hardest part of all of this is that he told me this last night and my son is spending the week with him… I don’t know what to do.
You do understand that for legal reasons, nobody here at the Straight Dope Message Board can tell you, “Yeah, go ahead and do it”? All we can do is be supportive.
Be very cautious in what you do. What state do you live in? What are the laws regarding assisted suicide? Sounds to me like you need to talk to a lawyer, or your uncle’s doctor, or both.
Also, slitting wrists or throat with a razor blade is messy and not always effective. If he’s in the hospital, especially if he’s in the ICU, you could set off an alarm. Better not to try it, is my advice.
There must be some kind of cancer hospice in your area. Look around–there’s help out there, if you’ll go and look for it. There are people who are trained to help you and your uncle with exactly this sort of thing. Bringing him a razor blade (or pills, or a gun) is only going to make things worse for the both of you. Like I said, suicide attempts aren’t always successful. He could end up as a vegetable; you could end up in jail.
And what will your son think of you?
You need some professional help with this situation, not catch-as-catch-can advice from the freewheeling, anonymous denizens of an Internet message board.
I couldn’t help him commit suicide–especially with a razor blade–I’m just looking for support and any helpful advice that anyone can share. I have never been confronted by anything like this in my life.
Get in touch with your uncle’s doctor, or, if he has one, ask his wife or SO to do it. You can ask an older relative to intervene as well.
Your uncle is obviously (and understandably) very depressed. That is treatable, even in his situation. Don’t do anything to help him hurt himself (doesn’t sound like you intend to). But Duck Duck Goose is quite right: Your uncle needs trained professional assistance.
And remember to ask your friends and relatives for help yourself if you need it. These are very tough things to deal with.
Personally, I’m a big fan of self-euthanasia (not for depression or something like that) when it is clear that the patient is just hanging on to experience newer vistas of pain.
What I got from DDG’s post was that fun2d8 should get professional help dealing with the situation, not that her uncle should get help with depression. He’s staring into Death’s dark hood–of course he’s depressed! But who are we to say that he would not benefit from his own death?
fun2d8, I can see that you’re having a rough time of it. This is a man you love dearly, who helped to raise you and your son. Now that he’s dying, I’m sure that it’s hard enough for you to deal with without the added pressure of Kevorkianism.
If he is as good a man as you’ve implied, he deserves to die with dignity. I’m not saying that you should help him (wink, wink) but I’ve always said that if I were in a situation like that one, I’d use a mercury thermometer, bite down on it and die a relatively painless death.
Thank you… I went crying to my mom last night and she called the Hospice to set up a meeting for this afternoon. I asked them to address the suicide issue very discreetly, I don’t want him to feel that I’ve violated his trust in me but I want him to get help. I can’t even begin to imagine what is going through his head right now.
Just a thought . . .
It might be that he wants more control in his life, and that’s the only way he sees of getting it. Commonly, when we start deteriorating bodily we lose control of a lot of the things that were common to us. Driving, reading, etc. So this may be his way of taking control of the only thing he sees he can control.
fun, YOU be sure to talk to the hospice people too. Not only will they help your uncle, they will help you to learn to cope with this painful situation.
They will give you facts about your uncle’s condition. Those facts will not be pretty, not at all. But at least you will have knowledge. They will help you to understand your own pain, and help you deal with it.
I simply cannot say enough good things about Hospice workers. They are angels. I have had three relatives pass away in the care of Hospice workers, and all three have received nothing but the very best of care. Hospice workers know that dying is not just painful for the ill person–it is just as hard, if not harder, on their loved ones. They treat the families with just as much dignity and respect as their patients.
I am sorry that you are in such a painful situation. Just be there for him, and let him know how much he means to you.
((((fun))))
fun2d8, I just want to second what Persephone said about Hospice workers. They are wonderful. They are not just there for the patient, but for the WHOLE family. God bless them all. And you and your family have my prayers and all good thoughts for a peaceful passing for your uncle and strength for all of you.
Oh, I forgot to add that Hospice workers are available 24-7-365. You can call them anytime, or if your uncle ends up going to a hospice center, you can visit anytime, day or night.
Also, if your uncle goes to a center, and happens to take a turn for the worse, if it is humanly possible, they WILL call you before he passes away. They will let you know that they think it might “be time,” in the hopes that you and your family can get there and be with him.
When my grandmother died last year, they called my uncle at 2 am to let him know that she had taken a turn for the worse. He started our patented telephone grapevine, and by the time she did pass away (at about 3 that afternoon), there had to be at least 20 people there with her. But that is what the Hospice hopes for–when their patients die, they want them surrounded by their family, so they can go knowing how loved they were.
First of all; You have my sincere sympathies for what be a most difficult situation.
Second: Duck Duck Goose said it all very well.
Third: Make sure that your uncle’s doctors are giving him sufficient medication to overcome his pain. Western medical doctors still suffer in the majority from the outdated and puritanical notion that morphine and other pain killers are like recreational drugs. This is changing very slowly and causes untold unnecessary suffering.
Right now, you and your uncle’s main concern should be for the quality of his (remaining) life. Experiencing extreme pain can completely cloud your better judgement and make suicide desirable. My own support of assisted suicide is not pertinent here. There may be a lot more time to spend with your uncle if you can just get his physical discomfort out of the way. Talk to his physician and make sure that he receives whatever it takes to eliminate his pain.
Finally, get a small tape recorder and go vist your uncle as often as you can. Have him tell you all of his favorite stories and childhood remembrances. Get as much down as you can. Bring your son with you so that he too can be part of the process and not feel so bereft when your uncle departs this mortal coil.
Compassionate hospice care is one of the most decent things there is for someone who is suffering. Research it as much as you can. You also need to talk to an attorney about all of these complications including administration of your uncle’s estate. A small amount of money spent on consultation can buy you a huge amount of peace of mind.
Try and be kind to yourself in these difficult times. Too often it is easiest to take all of the stress out on one’s self.
I have to back up Zenster on the painkiller issue.
One of the things I learned from a hospice worker who took care of my father-in-law is that “morphine is not a bad word, or a bad thing.” And after actually administering it myself to him, I came to realize that she was right. In the proper dosage, it manages pain effectively without clouding the brain.
{{{{{fun}}}}}
{{{{{fun’s uncle}}}}}
I cannot re-iterate the advice you’ve already been given about talking (and I mean talking really honestly) to hospice staff.
Having said that, I’m now going to tell you TMI and say that I have been down this road many times with people in my life (I think I’ve told you all before that I spent 15 years in the HIV/AIDS field and before that I nursed both of my parents through their final years).
A razor blade isn’t the way - neither’s a plastic bag (when my SO was dying he read Final Exit, I got requests for scalpels, plastic bags, the works).
Your uncle must have enormous love and admiration for you to have turned to you at this time, and also a great deal of courage.
Even if you have to raise merry hell at the facility where your uncle is (and having done this myself, I know it can be very confronting to take on the medical establishment), it is your absolute right to demand that he be given optimum pain relief, and if one doctor refuses to provide that then take it all the way up the line until you get either a categorical refusal from the most senior physician in the facility or you get an explanation of why they are unable to manage your uncle’s pain You will make yourself extremely unpopular taking this course of action, but in all likelhood, by the time you’re ever in this situation again, the same doctors won’t be there, so it doesn’t really matter.
I don’t know whether your uncle has made a “living will” or not, but once the pain is handled it’s time to have an honest conversation about the manner in which he wants to die (I know this is tough, but if he’s asking for a razor blade, he clearly wants to take control of his death). While there are many things which physicians cannot legally do to assist the dying process, there are many “routine” procedures which they are not required (or even allowed) to carry out if the patient has emphatically instructed them not to do so. I have found that even the most rabid pro-life doctors will respect that particular line (if only because they risk being sued if they act in direct contravention of the patient’s wishes).
Clearly, you love you uncle very much and he loves you - much as you feel shocked, I would ask you to consider for a moment how you would want him to proceed if your situations were reversed.
I don’t live in the US, and am therefore prepared to state openly that I have been knowingly involved in the controlled, peaceful ending of life in accordance with a person’s wishes on more than one occasion. There are good and bad resources on the net regarding this issue, and I’m sure that I’m not the only doper who would be willing to point you towards those resources should that need arise. I also sincerely hope that it doesn’t arise, and I would be very surprised if you can’t find at least one physician in the facility who is prepared to respect your uncles wishes to withdraw life-prolonging treatment, and increase pain control. If you cannot find that physician, then I would be willing to guide you through the maze of making the health care system respect your uncle’s wishes, as I’m sure others would.
Please take very good care of yourself and be kind to yourself - you can’t be there for your uncle unless you are there for yourself first.
fun2d8, my father died of lung cancer about a year and a half ago. It was a long, excruciating process. Our hospice people were not particularly helpful or pleasant (“You think your husband is dying now? Well look at the mimeographed sheet, and call us when he’s died.”), but together my family got through it. My mother had to slip him the morphine, because my father didn’t want to take it. It made a big difference for him, though. His general health seemed to improve when he was in such terrible pain. I highly recommend using that. It will improve his state of mind, and if he gets a little foggy but is comfortable, that’s okay.
{{{hugs and prayers}}}
StG
StG, I’m so sorry you had a bad experience with Hospice care. Our hospice workers when my FIL was dying were absolutely wonderful people. He decided to spend his last days at home. They were there for him and his wife. Call them in the middle of the night just to talk? No problem. Think he needs his meds changed? More morphine? No problem. Even helped with some of the difficulties in arranging for his VA benefits to cover expenses. And when he did pass, they were there within half an hour to be with the family and help with the “last details” that had to be dealt with. He was stubborn and ornery and gave them a hard time at first, but they were nothing but wonderful and he came to care about them before the end.
Didn’t bother to read the rest of the post. I really like you reprise!
I quote this entire passage out of respect. I can only hope that I receive this much regard when I shuffle off to Buffalo. Like I said, get over the worries about morphine and all that. Know that you have my deepest sympathies.
Thank you again for all of your support…The Hospice meeting was very successful. My Uncle is still at home and the Hospice nurse took him and my mother aside and very delicately asked him if he’d been depressed. That was all it took for him to open up tell them how scared he was of being in pain and having people have to take care of him. The Hospice told him that they don’t have any secrets and so they went back to the meeting and told the rest of the family. Many tears and hugs later, all the hunting rifles, knives and razor blades had been removed and his mental status had been reported to his doctors. They are prescribing an anti-depressant along with his pain medication which should start to work in about 2 weeks.
The most important things that happened yesterday are that my uncle knows that he has the total support of all his family and he has been reassured repeatedly by the Hospice nurse that he will NOT be in any pain.
{{{HUGS}}} to all of you who have made it through similar situations and thank you again for your support. I know that this is only the beginning of this road.