I do post work on Judge Judy and have seen a couple hundred episodes. She just had a case where three friends went out. The driver of the car was too drunk, so he let one of his friends drive his car.
Confusion with directions led to a wrong turn where the friend driver drove over a median wrecking two tires and the rear bumper. The owner sued the friend who drove the car. Who’s fault was all that? The OWNER of the car who let his friend drive. She dropped the case against the friend-driver.
She said (paraphrasing), the reason we have insurance and licenses for a 3,000 pound weapon is to keep the owner responsible for whatever decisions the owner makes.
Very glad the OP wasn’t hurt, but you better get a copy of every police report and report it to insurance.
Ugh. Well perhaps you’re correct, I do tend to give people too many chances in life to get it right. Also known as: being a doormat at times. Yeah, I know. Really, I do.
Also I was trying to find an upside to this situation, in a Pollyanna-ish sort of way.
Yep, I feel very guilty and at fault for letting someone else use my vehicle without being 100 percent clear about how legal they were. Absolutely a lapse in judgement on my part and I would agree with Judge Judy…mostly.
Except that would mean never, ever let anyone else drive your car without a spanking-new, up to the minute driving record, in writing, officially. Even if you are temporarily impaired, tired, injured, suddenly find yourself in need of a sober designated driver, whatever.
This didn’t apply to my OP because the guy who borrowed my van had no insurance on his own vehicle and yes I knew that, but generally speaking, if one has a valid license and insurance, aren’t you covered for whatever you drive? Certainly when I’ve had comprehensive auto insurance, I have safely waived add-on insurance for rental or borrowed cars…I’ve called my insurance agent and verified this more than once.
My insurance is extended to rental cars when I rent. Even additional medical coverage if in a car accident in a rental car. This all depends on the policy.
I don’t know what the situation is with your neighbor’s accident. Hopefully no one was hurt, or that could get messy.
All I know is, even if I let my sister drive me home in my car after I have a few too many, and she hits another car on the way home even while sober, I’m the one paying the deductible.
He isn’t. The giveaway is his statement about wanting to cause great bodily harm. If your friend is willing to work off his debt to you, I say let him. May teach him the error of his ways, and at least you get some compensation for the loss of your van.
Thanks Oakminster. I’m still vacillating between going apeshit-angry, saying “meh, shit happens” or somewhere in between.
Right now I am in between; I’ve since talked again to his mother (who is not a fan of said neighbor despite him being her second-born) and she told me that he called her for his one call, but made her promise that she called me next to express remorse.
He is a gormless, yet tries to do right, young man prone to poor decisions, and I KNEW this so I feel somewhat responsible. Not responsible for what happened, not at all. But responsible in that had I simply said “No” then, well, I’d still have my van and he would not be in the county lock-up. And truthfully , I knew he was gormless and did not always exercise good judgement so the responsible thing for me to have said would have been “No.” Or even, “Oh hell, no.”
Locrian, it appears that insurance may be a moot point in this case. All I have is PLPD, the other driver had none, and nobody was injured. So nobody is going to owe anyone, which I suppose is a good thing since Gormless driving my van got a ticket but from what I understand, that ticket is on his license and I am not liable simply by dint of owning the van.
At least, I hope not. I understand and accept being liable for the deductible if insurance was involved since I pay the premium and signed the agreement but I don’t think (and hope!) that I would be in any way held liable for damages either in civil or criminal court…sheesh I hope not.
So you knew he was gormless anddriving without insurance, when you lent him your van?
Sounds a tad like he’s not the only one who needs to make better decisions to me. And I sure hope your ID and wallet are still there when you finally get access to your van again. But to be honest it doesn’t really sound like you’ve learned anything about the wisdom of leaving them in your vehicle.
Colour me baffled why anyone would lend their vehicle to someone they know routinely drives without insurance.
Also I am a little intrigued by a system that permits people to skirt insurance requirements by purchasing a one week policy. That would be impossible where I live, and I believe the insurance company is required to report when someone’s insurance has lapsed. It’s interesting that the system is so easily defeated there.
In addition, why would they throw him in jail for an outstanding parking ticket? That seems odd, no wonder the jails are overcrowded. Round these parts they impound the car you’re driving and the driver cannot get it released until they pay up, including towing and storage. But no one goes to jail because of an outstanding parking ticket. Those parking wars shows, on tv, would seem to confirm what I say, those people all have lots of outstanding, past due tickets, they have to pay before their car gets released, but no one gets jailed for it. Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding?
I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better anyway and hope you face no more hassles in getting this sorted, but I’ll be really impressed if that is, in fact, the case. Either way you sound much more circumspect today and that’s a good thing. I wish you nothing but good luck in the days ahead and hope the worst is over!
“jail” in this context probably means a short-term holding cell at the police station or courthouse, and has nothing whatsoever to do with prison overcrowding.
I never mentioned ‘prison over crowding’, and I’m aware of the difference between the two. Thrown into jail for an outstanding traffic ticket, that’s less than 90 days past due? Still sounds odd to me. Even if it’s short term, till you can get someone to pay up for you, jail? For an outstanding ticket? Wow.
Can you explain why on the tv shows that let you watch this play out, (Parking Wars), none of those people were arrested or put in jail, just had their car impounded, not to be released, and racking up storage fees everyday, until they pay the past due amounts?
If you can be formally arrested and jailed for such a thing in the US, I have learned something new today. No wonder the fellow was keen to avoid a police encounter so desperately. My first thought was, he’s not telling the whole truth about why he was put in jail, who would risk a car crash to avoid police over a traffic ticket?
What crime do they actually charge you with, in such a case I wonder? Surely they can’t jail you without filing a formal charge, or some stripe or other, can they?
If you’re correct then I thank you for teaching me something I never knew before!
My WAG about the outstanding ticket is that he may have missed a court appearance regarding that ticket. They do not take kindly to that, hence the warrant.
If you fail to pay a traffic citation within a certain time period (it’s printed on the ticket and varies by jurisdiction), or you fail to appear in court to address a citation, a bench warrant will be issued for you. Failing to appear is considered “contempt of court.”
Because of the triviality of the “crime,” the police do not actively pursue such warrants, however if they happen to encounter you for any other reason, like a traffic stop or an accident, they look you up and if they find a warrant, they arrest you and toss you in jail.
Basically you sit in jail for a while then you pay your original fine plus late penalties, plus additional fines for the contempt, and they let you go, unless you have additional warrants for something more serious.
I wouldn’t be so hard on chiroptera. If a neighbor you know, who has done’ work for you says “Hey, I need to run to AutoZone for a part for my car - can I borrow your van?”, most people aren’t going to inquire too deeply about the status of their license and police record.
Ohhh…trust me. I am slapping myself upside the head for my own serious lapse in judgement, here. Overall I am probably angrier at myself than at anyone else in this whole mess. In short: **I did a very stupid thing and I won’t ever do it again. **
Yes, apparently they can and will put you in jail for an outstanding traffic (not parking; it was a failure to come to a complete stop at a four-way stop crossroads ie a moving violation) ticket here in Genesee county, Michigan. However, he is bailing himself out today. His mother found a bail bondsman who will get him out for $450.00.
I don’t know the laws of your state, or even what state you’re in, but why do you think no one owes anyone? Why are you not responsible, by dint of owning the van, for the cost of repairs to the Cavalier? The Cavalier’s owners are faultlessly out one car due to you irresponsibly lending your car to someone who damaged their car. Insurance notwithstanding, don’t they have a valid cause of action against you? Or in your state, is it the law that if you don’t have auto insurance, you don’t get to sue someone who has committed a tort against you?
Just wondering, because in my state, the Cavalier owner, being uninsured, would lose his license, but he absolutely would still have a claim against you for damages to his car.
Hmm. I’m in Michigan which is a no-fault insurance state. I guess I assumed that because the Cavalier was both stolen and uninsured and being driven by people who had possibly just committed a crime, the legal owner wouldn’t have a case against me personally. I fully admit that it was irresponsible of me to loan my van to Gormless, but I certainly wasn’t anywhere near the proximate cause of this accident.
I’ll know more when I get the accident report tomorrow. Without that I am pretty much still in the dark about everything.
Right. This had nothing at all to do with a parking ticket, so I have no idea where that even came from. He was cited for a traffic violation, given a court date, then failed to appear in court. His license was then suspended, and he was arrested and placed in jail for driving with a suspended license.
Also, cars are insured, not drivers. One does not need to have insurance just to drive a car.
at least to me, it isn’t so much that, as it is the OP’s reaction to the incident. If it was a matter of the jackanape got hit on his way to or from Autozone, that’d be one thing. Shit happens, and the like. But the fact that said jackanape destroyed the van while driving it places he wasn’t supposed to tosses all that out of the window.
Regarding the OP, I know it’s too late for this advice, but my personal predilection is, if someone really needs my vehicle to get somewhere, I will drive them personally as a favor, rather than let them drive.
In SC, cars carry insurance, but the insurance is only valid for “covered drivers” so that means that anyone who is driving has to be listed on the insurance in order for the insurance to apply when the driver is at fault in an accident.
When you do your insurance yearly, there’s a space to list regular other drivers that you want to keep on there permanently, and my specific insurance asks me to call them and add people temporarily when I allow them to drive the car - they check their DL # and see what’s up, and let me know if they can approve them as a driver or not under my $ amount of premium and types of coverage. If not, then that someone doesn’t get to borrow my car. I’m a very mean person like that.
If I lent my car to my mother (who isn’t listed) without calling the insurance company first and letting them know, and she T-boned someone, then the fact that she’s *not *a listed driver would most likely be enough for the insurance company to say “so sorry - we don’t have to cover that accident for you.”
