My van was totalled last night. I feel sick.

Seriously don’t keep your wallet in your car or van, that’s nuts. Specially if you are going to let someone else drive it. Wallet should be with you at all times, if you don’t carry a purse wear clothes with pockets.

Do you typically leave your wallet in your car overnight? Wow, not a good idea. And if you do, it didn’t occur to you to take it out before you loaned your car out?

You might want to think again about the lawn mowing.
He might total your mower next.

Update.
(And yes, yes, I do sometimes leave my wallet in a (locked) vehicle, we’ve been over that upthread.) Seriously that was the least of my worries.

My insurance company will cover the damages to the Cavalier owner IF they have insurance and the driver at the time of the accident had a valid license. Neither appears to be the case. A copy of the police report has been faxed to my insurance company anyway. In the unlikely event I get sued by the Cavalier owner, Gormless and I will do whatever we need to make it right.

The van is not, in fact, totalled. Pending professional evaluation, by general consensus. It needs a front clip and the radiator was punched through by part of the grille. It looks pretty sad. But the wheels turn normally, the doors all open fine, and various backyard mechanics (and one nice cop) have crawled underneath and proclaimed the frame is straight.

Gormless has covered the cost of the tow/impound/storage already. He scrambled and got me cash today. The van is in my driveway. The towing company has a contract with Flint PD, and has a police officer on the lot most of the time. They were very nice, and he walked me out to my van and let me get my ID and a couple of other things from it this morning. I needed my legal state ID/drivers’ license in order to then go to the police department, pay the $250 fee, and get the police report and an official release to take back to the tow yard so I could get my van. That was all sort of a pain in the ass. I had to wait in all sorts of lines, for everything. Lots of people with crises.

It turns out that Gormless’s across-the-street-neighbor’s brother’s uncle, or something, owns a body shop and has agreed to dolly it up to his shop to look it over properly. He will also do the necessary repairs in trade for Gormless painting his mother’s house.

(This is a somewhat hardscrabble, tight-knit neighborhood and things have a way of getting worked out. Two other neighbors also have jumped in with offers of loans and work on the vehicle for me.)

Gormless goes to court Wednesday morning to deal with his part in this. He’s [del] borrowing my truck to get there [/del] getting a ride from his across-the-street neighbor.

I’m a whole less wrought and frantic now than I was on Saturday morning. When I posted the OP, I had no idea WTF was going on and I was taking it on faith that my van was, indeed, totalled.

:smiley:
Duly noted.

Sounds like you live in a quite nice neighborhood, having good neighbors can make a huge difference! Glad it seems things will work out, that’s a relief.

Jesus H. Christ, please tell me where you live so I will know to stay away.

Here in the rational state of North Carolina you you are required to keep auto liability
insurance in force 100% of the time, no ifs and or buts.

I do not believe this could be right, even in the madcap jurisdiction you apparently
live in. The Cavalier owner’s insurance and license status should not be relevant to
the question of your liability insurance coverage. Liability insurance is supposed to
take care of damages like his, at least it is normal places.

I urge you to get back in touch with your insurance about this and if they do not
agree to indemnify you then call the state Insurance Commisioner’s office and see
what they have to say.

That’s typically an issue with the policy, not the state.

Genesee county, Michigan.
And yes, insurance is required 100% of the time here too. Throughout the entire state. No ands, if or buts here either - but people do it. I guarantee you that not everyone on your roads is insured.

As I understand it, the Cavalier owner has to make a claim in order to recover for any damages. They may not have standing. That is their responsibility, not mine. If they follow through, they will be made good, or whole, or whatever the legalese is. I am making no attempt to shirk responsibility here.

Note that Michigan is a no-fault insurance state.
**
Labrador Deceiver **- as far as I know, at least in Michigan and Colorado, if your vehicle is insured, anyone with both a valid drivers license and permission who drives it will be covered even with PLPD/basic collision insurance.

That may be because such a policy is required by state law. The point I’m trying to make is that such policies are available in SC.

Yes, well, “nice” neighborhood might be a bit of a stretch going by the conventional definition of nice neighborhood. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s just steps away from ghetto and hovering around “dilapidated rural-ish but at least we’re not living in trailers like those OTHER people.”

And it is definitely a 'hood of people who feel “we’re all in this together” and “neighbors looking out for neighbors.”

Glad everything has worked out so well for you so far.

If I were Gormless, I’d fight the charge of failing to yield. If I see a car coming towards me as I’m about to turn left and the speed limit is, say, 45mph, I can gauge pretty well whether I have time to turn in front of them. But if they’re exceeding the speed limit (which is harder to tell at night) because, say, they’re being chased by the cops, I might not realize that they’re speeding until it was too late.

If you ask me, this is a “no fault” accident. When cops are chasing getaway cars, they shouldn’t go blaming other people for not anticipating a speeding car zooming at them as they go about their business. :stuck_out_tongue:

Burton?

Where I am, it is the DRIVER who is on the hook for any damage to other vehicles. (assuming he / she is at fault)

The owner, will naturally have to bear the cost / risk of their own damage - but nothing to the other vehicle.

We do have an offence of allowing an unlicensed / uninsured driver to drive, but not very sure what the standard is for that.

Also, remember to change your locks on your house.

Anybody who is a perpetual loser like your friend, and lies to borrow your car, and goes flying all over town is not somebody to have unrestricted access to your home.

If you secretly change your lock, I’ll bet your friend will come up to you, out of the blue, and tell you that he thinks the locks on your house are broken.

Don’t trust him with anything. If he wants to do something for you, for free, to make up, you will be indebted to him for the rest of your life.

In some (all?) states, I believe that if the driver would ordinarily have legal right-of-way is exceeding the posted speed limit by more than a certain margin, they cede right-of-way to other vehicles. IOW, if the allowed margin is 10 MPH and you’re doing 56 in a 45 when someone turns in front of you, they won’t be helpd to be at fault in the ensuing crash.

No idea if that’s the law, but that’s certainly what I’d argue.

Sorry to hear about this, but you gotta admit it makes for a really good story. :slight_smile:

As far as insurance is concerned, you reported the claim and you’re good to go. Nobody but an insurance adjuster licensed to handle claims in the state of Michigan is in any state to opine about whether Chiroptera’s insurance will/should be paying out under these circumstances, either. No-fault auto insurance does not make ANY logical sense, and has nothing to do with how auto insurance works in non-no-fault* states. If it turns out your adjuster is slacking, fucks up somewhere along the line, and you get sued? You turn the suit over to your insurance company and keep drinking your margarita.

*It’s a word, ok!

BTW, just a little ignorance-fighting from someone who works in the insurance industry (but is not a licensed adjuster): The van probably **is **technically totaled. A vehicle is generally considered a total loss when the repairs from a single event outstrip 75% of the value of the vehicle. But unless **Chiroptera **gets it repaired by an insurance company, nobody’s likely to force her to convert it to a salvage title. If she has the repairs done by friends and family for cash in hand, welp. An insurance company definitely wouldn’t pay for a $3000 repair on a van worth $2500 on paper (and most people would recommend buying a new used vehicle instead of throwing your money away on a beater). But hey, it’s your money and nobody can prevent you from repairing the vehicle if you wish. Plus, it’s a known quantity under the hood, so I can understand why you’d rather not take the chance on a new used van.

As far as no-fault insurance is concerned, most states are **not **no-fault when it comes to auto insurance. Michigan is fairly unique in this regard, although this wikipedia page has a list of other no-fault states. There aren’t many, and each has its own unique take on no-fault insurance. But anyway, most states are what is called “tort liability” states with regard to auto insurance. If the permissive use of your vehicle causes an accident–no matter who is driving (with some exceptions for explicitly-excluded drivers and/or potentially weird state laws I’ve never heard of)–your liability insurance will pay for the damage. If you don’t have liability coverage, you’re personally on the hook for the damages, even if someone else was driving your vehicle when the accident occurred. This is why it’s a pretty stupid idea not to keep your vehicle continuously insured, and also why you should carefully consider who you allow to drive your vehicle.

Regarding deductibles… In a tort liability state, there would not be a deductible for damages to the other vehicle. It would be a liability claim, and you only pay a deductible when you’re getting your own vehicle repaired by your own insurance company under your own collision or comprehensive coverage.

For some additional knowledge, “no-pay no-play” laws do exist (Louisiana is the only place I know of, off the top of my head). In a no-pay-no-play state, the Cavalier owners would not be able to collect against **chiroptera’s **insurance (maybe not at all, or maybe just not until the damages exceed a certain amount)–not even if **chiroptera **was driving the van at the time and 100% at-fault for the accident. The legislature there has decided that it’s not fair to collect on someone else’s auto insurance policy if you can’t be assed to pay for one of your own, although if the damages are particularly egregious (I think the bar was set at $15,000 last I checked) then you *can *collect above and beyond that amount.

As a rule of thumb*, insurance follows the vehicle, not the driver. There may be some funky state laws or weird insurance policies that will only pay out if the driver who caused an accident was explicitly listed on the policy. But for the most part, if Sam drives Mike’s vehicle with Mike’s permission, and Sam crashes the vehicle, Mike’s insurance company will pay for the damages. Mike’s insurance rates will also be raised until the at-fault surcharge drops off his policy (3-5 years, give or take). This is because Mike is the kind of guy who loans his car to guys like Sam, and thus puts his insurance company at greater risk of paying out claims in the future. If Sam is a stand-up guy and has the money, he’d offer to pay the difference in Mike’s insurance rates until the at-fault surcharge falls off Mike’s policy. But you can’t collect blood from a stone.

If you take nothing else away from this thread, just remember to avoid loaning your car to anyone unless you’re willing to take the risk that they will crash it.

*There are always exceptions, which is why a state-specific license is needed to adjust claims.