**Dio **- in theory you’re right, but in practice it was probably the wrong fight to pick.
Anyway, the subject of the letter is barely relevant. Were her arguments clearly defined and thought out? Was her writing style any good? Those are the kinds of things you should worry about at her age. If you really want challenge her beliefs, ask her to lay out her arguments, and then try to poke holes in them. Your wife can’t get angry at you for exposing you kid to a bit of Socratic Dialog, can she?
Don’t tell her “this is right” and “this is wrong”. Just ask her questions, and help her figure things out herself.
What’s this ‘caving’ shit and you reversing yourself just to sleep in your own bed? That doesn’t sound like you.
Tell your wife if she doesn’t want to sleep with you in your marital bed just because you have a different opinion about something than she does, then she can go sleep on the couch or in the car.
I’ve never gotten this whole wife-is-pissed/hubby-sleeps-on-the-couch thing. Kind of like the toilet seat thing where the man is supposed to lift it so he can use it and then put it back down so she can use it. Fuck that shit! Everybody should be responsible for making sure the toilet seat is where it needs to be when they use the toilet.
It sounds like a man who knows when to say when. Hell, I’ve apologized for shit that I had absolutely no reason or cause for apologizing. Did it make me a little nauseous not to stand my ground when I was clearly in the right? Yeah, it did – but that doesn’t last. Our marriage has.
I tend to agree with the point of view that it doesn’t matter whether the President could or would act on the suggestion in the letter, it just matters how well the letter is written-- to fourth grade standards.
Discussion of what porn is and why it is so popular even though some disapprove of it or why it can’t or won’t be made illegal should be separate. And can probably wait until your daughter is older, although I admit to some curiousity as to how your daughter defines porn and how well your daughter understands porn–does she just think porn should be illegal because porn is something Mommy doesn’t like?
Yes, the assignment is for her to write to President Obama about something that is important to her, not something that is important to her Dad.
But that’s not the biggest thing I took away from your OP. It’s possible that I’m one of those crazy people with my porn-o-meter cranked up to 11 like Astro mentions, but I’m with the folks that think that porn is a somewhat unusual choice for a 4th grader to come up with. Are you at all worried that someone, maybe another kid at school, was showing her porn and she’s upset about it? And I don’t even mean this in an OMG criminal pr0n!!! way, it could be one of those completely innocent kid things that is somewhat funny in retrospect, like a kid finding a porn mag in the parents’ bedroom and showing it around … but smart kids are often imaginative kids and she might have started inventing scenarios that are scary to her. OR someone telling her “porn is bad!” led her to investigate “hmm, what’s porn?” and her computer research could have resulted in something especially creepy or violent. (a browser history check may be helpful). I say this as someone who had a Lisa Simpson childhood myself, and often fueled my own anxieties because I couldn’t articulate my worries to my well-intentioned parents because my imagination and my emotional maturity weren’t synced up. I could be projecting, but I wanted to put it out there as something to think about.
Agreed. I learned what abortion was at a pretty young age, probably from the news or encyclopedias or something, and thought that if there was a “mother’s life in danger” case then of course the baby should win because the mother has already had a chance at life and the baby hasn’t. :smack:
As for porn, I learned about that by finding porn in the woods with my friends, like half the other kids of the 70s and 80s! I think the other half found their dad’s/older brother’s stash. Did the OP’s daughter maybe find it on the Internet, or get told about it in a “be careful what you do online” talk?
I’m against this topic being turned in for a 4th grader as an assignment. I’m guessing your kid will learn that there are restraints in life that they have to follow or get their work rejected.
You are right, and she is out of line. The first amendment was designed to protect us against censorship. That means that occasionally we have to ignore expressions that we find unpleasant.
Also I agree about the whole “sleep on the couch thing”. I can’t imagine getting so annoyed with my spouse that I would ask her to sleep on the sofa. Nashiitashii tried that line out with me once though. I replied that if she could move me I’d sleep out on the sofa. She tried, and I pulled the dreaded “Boneless Jellyfish” maneuver that you as a parent must be familiar with. After a few fruitless half-hearted shoves we both devolved into a fit of the giggles. Seriously, you might want to consider having a discussion about this topic at a more rational time.
I think you did the right thing by encouraging your daughter to encourage other perspectives on the issue and with greater complexity (i.e. considering not only the legislative drive to do this but also the judicial restraints placed on someone like the president which would make such an attempt impossible), but ultimately, she’s a 4th grader and if she still wants to make her letter about outlawing porn after your little chat, let her letter ultimately be about outlawing porn. It’s terrific that your involved with your daughter’s school-life, but you’ve got to giver her room to fail too.
It is bizarre to me that your wife would make intimations at forcing you to sleep on the couch or even separate based upon your involvement with your daughters homework.
You’re both wrong, of course. (This is surprisingly common in arguements between husband and wife).
To start with, your wife is wrong about her views on pornography, and is wrong to want to kick you out of bed for that reason.
But you’re wrong in wanting your daughter’s assignment to reflect the “correct” political viewpoint (i.e., your viewpoint). One lesson that your daughter ought to take out of this is that there can be different positions on political issues – and sometimes Mom and Dad will take different sides. At ten years old she can understand enough to have her own political views, which often will be influenced by her parents, but may also be influenced by her friends and by what she sees n TV. (Just as they are for all of us).
In my view, you can discuss the matter intelligently – ask if she’s though what the First Amendment means, point to arguments that porn does not necessarily degrade women, etc. – but part of the point of this assignment should be that these are her views, not the views of either of her parents.
And both you and your wife need to learn that people you love can be wrong on particular political issues, without it having a negative impact on your relationship. Hopefully your daughter is learning this too.
I was gonna say “your wife is always right even when she’s wrong” because that’s my basic advice, but using pornography as a topic for a 4th grader (she’s my oldest son’s age) would be a bit too much. It’s not that kids should grow in a bubble or anything, but it is a topic that opens a six-pack of worms an with kids that age you already have enough.
The topic seems to have originated with your wife.
Stick to your guns.
Maybe you could steer the topic towards giving women all the chances they need so that they don’t feel presured to do porn?
So if daughter had chosen one of these topics, would you have gently explained why it’s beyond the president’s power to effect world peace, and that no matter how badly she wants starving children to be fed there are practical reasons whay it ain’t gonna happen? And that therefore, she should not write to the president about these issues?
Screeds? A request to ban something is a long way from a screed.
I think your daughter’s chosen topic hit a raw nerve, and that you took this assignment way beyond what was intended.
See? Advocate, not constitutionally analyze.
Yes, maybe where it’s relevant to the purpose of the assignment.
I think the best explanation of the first amendment that you can give to your daughter is this: “I disagree with the point of the letter you’re writing. However, political expression is a very important freedom, and I support your right to express your political viewpoint even when I disagree with it. I hope one day you’ll support the right of other people to their own freedoms of speech and expression, too.”
As much as it pains me to agree with you on a Sunday in October, DtC, you are correct. I think this whole assignment teaches a bad lesson: Your opinion matters! No matter how unrealistic and ill-informed your views may be, democracy is about your love for the sound of your own voice. Tell the President there oughta be a law! Now you’re part of the process!
The teacher could present a universe of issues on which there are two sides a fourth-grader can understand, and let them pick a side and write a letter. The teacher could pick one issue, spend a unit teaching both sides of the debate on a level fourth-graders can understand, and require them to write letters supporting their views on that issue. But instead, they learn about Democracy by getting credit for putting their feelings in print. They are learning lessons that they will have to unlearn if they are to become real contributors to democracy later in life.
When I was in fourth and fifth grades, we used to have pretty spirited discussions about abortion and the death penalty. Granted, it was a tracked class, but still – give the kids some credit.
So kudos to you for trying to teach your daughter a real lesson about how our system of government works. And I’m in the camp with those who say that “sleep on the couch” thing is an outdated cliche; my marital bed is big enough for two, and MsNito understands that I will sleep in it whether she wants to be next to me or not.
Not knowing anything but what you’ve written here, it sounds like you saw your daughter’s assignment as a way to score in an old argument with your wife, and then built up around it this idea that the assignment was calling for a reasonably achievable political goal. Or at least like your wife sees it this way.
