I completely agree. Purchasing has worked out for me, but I did my homework before going from renting to owning. As I’ve pointed out, there are plusses and minuses to home ownership and not everyone should stop renting. Do the homework or find someone competent and trustworthy to help you make the right decision.
Here lies a problem with your response. I’m not rah rahing a house. I’m simply pointing out that it’s bettter to buy your own house rather than someone else’s. I also pointed out the leveraging ratio I’ve experienced with my own labor. It’s better to spend time improving a house than it is to work overtime. There’s nothing wrong with leveraging less living space if the money is actually invested. and as I pointed out earlier anyone jumping into the market with a wad of cash 6 months ago would have done well.
Or it could triple in 20 years and the stock market could tank. People need to invest toward retirement. If a house is paid off in 10 years then the last 10 years of salary is free and clear to be put into a 401K if someone doesn’t have the discipline for it. What part of my suggestion don’t you understand? Having my own house paid off has made a huge difference with me during hard times.
My advise is to look for a house. I didn’t say not to research it. I didn’t say buy the first one you see or that evey location has bottomed out. There is always a housing slump somewhere just as there are housing booms. Use some common sense in this discussion. If the op can pay off a house with a single income then the risk of default is reduced. It’s a buyer’s market for houses because of the bubble and interest rates are low. Low housing costs and low interest rates = low mortgage payment. Low mortgage payment = more disposable cash to invest.
Less interest means faster payoff.
This is the age of information. All the legwork I had to do to research my house can now be done on the computer. Buy a business analyst calculator and play with a spreadsheet.
Sometimes. Not always. Probably not now in most areas. Look at this video. The original buyer spent $430,000 on this house. Was that purchase better than renting? After it went into foreclosure it sold for $200,000 probably a week ago. Was that a good decision?
I think in both cases it was a tremendously stupid decision, only justified in those peoples minds by the thought that buying a house is a good idea regardless of the circumstances. I’m going to bet that the second buyer will end up losing $50,000 on the house; how much is his sweat equity going to be worth?
Around here anyone jumping into the market 6 months ago would have gotten killed.
Over historical timelines the stock market has returned about 8% after inflation. If you exclude the 2000 housing bubble, for the last few hundred years housing has consistently appreciated at just about the rate of inflation. I know which is the better bet going forward.
I think the best benefit of a house purchase is that it forces undisclipined savers to build savings (equity). For the disciplined investor there are much better avenues for savings; e.g., despite crashing last year, my investments have appreciated by 22% YTD. Over the same time period housing prices in my neighborhood fell by 20%, and I don’ think prices have botommed out.
I’m sure you’re doing ok (so far) if you bought prior to 2000, and probably you’re doing just great (so far) if you bought prior to 1995, but people who bought after 2000 aren’t going to do that well. A young guy I work with bought a downtown condo for maybe $600,000 a few years ago. One of his neighbors just put his condo on the market for $358,000–hasn’t sold yet. Essentially my coworker is looking at a $250,000 minimum loss. That’s a lot to overcome–could mean the difference between retiring at 60 and retiring at 75. He also loved to talk about how renting was throwing money away. In his same building someone bought 6 months ago for $420,000; that guy’s lost $80,000 in 6 months. And I don’t think the bottom has been reached yet.
Research is nice, but no amount of research is going to reveal the future to you, and the future might suck tremendously. We just saw the largest asset bubble in human history; a bubble for the very asset you’re advising the guy to buy. Rent/price ratios are still way out of whack with historic levels in many areas in the country. We’re looking at historic levels of NODs and foreclosures. We just saw the deepest recession in 50 years and there’s no guarantee it’s over yet. Unemployment levels are historically high. Locking yourself into a 30-year agreement at this time is damn risky, and people who throw around nonsense phrases like “renting is throwing money away” aren’t providing good advice.
Low interest rates means high prices, which means high mortgage payments.
I’m perfectly familiar with research. My research is telling me house prices will fall through mid-2011 in my area, and buying now would cost me dearly.
Hilarious. You actually make my point for me, yet don’t even realize it.
Perhaps the house, as you say, got bubbled down to it’s real value. Yet it’s still cheaper to rent it. What the house used to be worth has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, nor has anyone done anything stupid. What that house represents is the rental and purchase market in an area, not some deal gone bad.
And again, for the cheap seats, I am not telling the OP not to buy. I’m telling you that your assertion that it is always better to buy to just plain ignorant.
Some common-sense rules for first-time home buyers (NYTimes, registration required).
3 bad reasons to buy a house (no registration required).
There are downsides to owning a house, just like there are to just about anything. It’s not good to go into any major life decision (and buying a house definitely qualifies as a major life decision) being ignorant or dismissive about what the downsides of that decision are.
My apologies upfront to PKK for furthering the rent v. buy debate, if that’s something you’re not interested in.
Can’t find it right now, but a few years back there was a briliant article by someone who compared the real costs of owning versus renting and basically came to the conclusion that, in the long run, renting was actually a better financial decision most of the time. It’s hard to believe as it flies in the face of everything that society has programmed us to do with our lives: go to school, get a job, get married, buy a house, have children, etc. but if you take an unbiased look at the numbers, it appears to be true.
I recall he/she ran hypothetical models based on buying houses every 10 (maybe 5?) years from 1940 onward (meaning a model was run based on purchasing and holding a house from 1940-2005, another model was run based on purchasing and holding a house from 1950-2005, etc). And in almost all of the cases, renting and investing versus owning came out on top (of course that assumes you are diligent enough to take the money saved by renting and invest it- the author did admit that a house is sort of a “forced” savings plan). Here’s an article that has the same flavor (and reaches the same conclusion), but unfortunately doesn’t have all the hard figures and data points of the article I’m remembering:
Arguments of renting vs. buying notwithstanding, the OP said:
There appears to be no question that continuing to rent THIS apartment would be absolutely the wrong move. Why increase your rent over $200/month when the amenities are declining?
Rent elsewhere if you need to, but get out of there!
If having a freely-owned house isn’t part of every homeowner’s retirement plan, it should be. Having no mortgage or rent payment when your income drops significantly is a huge deal, since such a large portion of everyone’s income goes to housing. We are in our forties, and we are thinking like this - we have accelerated payments on our mortgage so the house gets paid off early, and we have every intention of making extra payments to pay it off even sooner. If you continue to rent, you can never eliminate that chunk of expense when your income drops.
No, you’re still not getting it. Houses in the $100,000 range don’t decline at the same rate as houses in the $1,000,000 range. I’ve been watching the value loss in my area and it’s not a linear decline. We are in a recession on top of the housing bubble and cheaper houses are more desireable. That transfers to the price of rent. Million dollar homes that rent for half their “value” mean the house was purchased for much less money and is renting closer to it’s true value and not the bubble value. That’s why some area are hit harder than others, the price of housing increased way beyond market value. This goes back to what I originally said. You can’t have houses increasing in value at 3 times the inflation rate without a collapse. It’s not sustainable. It’s just like stock. People who bought dot-com stocks got burned because the value of the stock was far less than the feeding frenzy which produced it. Not only do I not care if the value of houses doubled in a neighborhood in 5 years I would specifically avoid it. It’s just common sense.
Cite please.
Also, please show me where this is at all relevant to the argument.
Also, would you like for me to give you similar cites for $200,000 houses?
The rest of your post had nothing at all to do with the subject at hand. I am not talking about potential future prices, I am talking about current prices.
Having a freely-owned house isn’t something that happens automagically to everyone who buys a house, though. You have to not keep taking out home-equity loans. If you do, you might not get this even if you do buy a house. Again, you have to be honest, even brutally honest, with yourself- do you have the discipline to not take out a loan if offered one, unless it’s for a very good reason? The bank that has our mortgage keeps offering us home equity loans- they were almost as bad with that as the credit card companies sending those “convenience” checks for a while.
And that’s something else you have to be honest with yourself about whether you will really do that or not. It doesn’t help you much if you could invest the money saved by renting, but you don’t actually do it.
Wise words indeed.
Or course it doesn’t - that’s why I said “plan.” You have to make this happen for yourself. I think it helps if you understand why being debt-free in your old age is important, though.
???.
The current prices that are the result of a burst bubble? You want the op to wait until prices rise again? I have no idea what you’re trying to say/prove/advise/suggest or otherwise convey here. The price of houses have come down from an over inflated price and a general down turn in the economy. In the situation of the OP there exists a financial situation involving the purchase of a house with ONE income. There is no specific worry about losing both incomes so this represents someone in a position to take advantage of decreased prices, low interest rates and a depressed market.
You act as if the OP is incapable of researching the drop in price of houses, the stability of prices within a neighborhood or the general trend of a region.
I’ve said it at least 3 times, but since you seem to be incapable of reading, I’ll say it once more time.
I am not talking now, nor have I ever been talking about the OP’s specific situation. I challenged the notion that it is always better to buy a house than it is to rent it. You clearly understood this when I entered the thread, but you your totally decimated argument has caused you to engage in an ass ton of hand waving. In addition, you started a dick waving contest, then got indignant when yours didn’t measure up.
I have proven, without a shadow of a doubt, that buying is not always better than renting, from a financial standpoint. If you’d care to dispute this again, please feel free.
Please don’t.
Too late.
Just wanted to come in and thank everyone again for their contributions to the thread. Apparently there is much more at stake than I have realized and my wife may be correct in being more hesitant than I am in getting a house. There is a lot of good information to consider from both sides on this. As a teacher, I found some government programs that might be of assistance as well. I, or we, will have to do more research to make sure we’re doing what is right. Thanks.
I know myself and others have gotten off track from your original post, but ultimately that was answered pretty quickly in that you need to talk to your wife and find out what exactly is making her hesitant. I am glad you found the rest of our ramblings helpful and hopefully it has at least helped you understand the risk/reward ratio of buying. If you take the time to educate yourself and analyze your own financial situation as well as the housing market in your area, you will be fine whatever direction you choose.
There’s a government incentive program that ends Sept 30 so you’re too late to really avail yourself of the money but keep an eye out for it in the future. I think you should look for houses as a scholastic exercise even if you don’t want one right now. If ever the time comes you’ll be able to look for inspectors, real estate agents, title agencies and all the related web sites without feeling overwhelmed by the process.