Nation experiences temporary affection for New York

The BBQ Pit
1

OK.

I tread in here very lightly. I honestly want to discuss this and to vent a little frustration…but I’m going to try to do it mildly and without swearing, and without everyone coming in to call me the antichrist. AND with everyone understanding that it’s just my opinion, and it may very well be wrong.

I only post it in the pit instead of IMHO because I assume that within ten minutes someone will be here to call me a bitch.

But here I go…

When is it going to be OK for me not to like New York City anymore? I used to live in Rochester, New York, and once a year, we’d go to NYC for shows and shopping and what have you.

And I hated it. I don’t like NYC at all. It’s a good thing I found Chicago, or I’d be off big cities for good. New York is very glittery and sparkling, but it’s also angry, and so rushed and callous. It smells. It’s deafening at any time of day. It’s dark. And by that I mean that the skyscrapers are so tall and so packed that you can only see the sun when it’s high noon. I need a city that has trees and suburbs to escape to when the bustle is too much (and no, Central Park is not enough)

It’s so huge and daunting that it nearly guarantees that it’s inhabitants will go out of their minds within a year. And to prevent it you have to become something of a city dweller (of which Chicago has thousands): rude, cold, fast and emotionless. Everyone looks angry or sad in New York.

As an actress, people wondered when I’d move to NYC, (apparently the be all end all of human existence) and were shocked when I said I’d rather die than live there.

And then we had Sept 11th.

And all of the sudden: everyone loves New York. And yes, I understand it. The world was crushed, the world was shocked. Thousands of people dead, in an instant, and it was terrifying. And for a city that size to be ground to a screeching halt…

Indeed I was weeping for New York, because while I do not like to go there, I know plenty of people love it, and I know people who live there who are great, wonderful people.

But a tragedy at WTC did not make me LOVE NYC. I do not have an I HEART NEW YORK t-shirt. Nor will I ever.

And yet, yesterday, November 4th, I looked at a friend of mine and, in casual conversation said, “Ugh. I hate New York. going there is like having a prison sentence.”

And I thought he was going to bitchslap me. I really did. “How dare you?” he said. “After all they’ve been through? You have the balls to say a shitty thing like that?”

Freedom of speech and opinion I guess: until he didn’t like what I wanted to say.

jar

2

A tiny quibble: Freedom of speech only refers to your freedom to dissent vis-a-vis the government. It doesn’t mean people can’t bitchslap other people’s opinions. If it did, the SDMB would cease to exist.

That said, your friend is a moron. Yes, NYC suffered a tragic blow on 9/11, but being a victim is not equivalent to sainthood. It’s OK to hate NYC (although that’s mighty odd talk coming from an inhabitant of the coldest, ugliest city I’ve ever been to.) I feel great sympathy for their loss and enormous admiration for their bravery in the face of horror, but that doesn’t magically make NYC a jewel of a city.

I also feel great admiration for Rudy Guiliani’s leadrship after 9/11, but that didn’t stop me from being annoyed that he popped up during the NBC tv-movie Uprising (really good BTW–had me in tears in several spots)in a political ad for the Republican candidate for the Virginia governor’s race. Mark Earley has run a dirty campaign and Rudy shouldn’t support him.

3

Love yer posts, jarbabyj.

New York City is not for everyone. I’d disagree with most of what you’ve said about my fine city, but I understand that not everyone digs the Big Apple.

After recent events, New York understandably took a hit in one of its most important revenue-generating industries: tourism. That’s why people have been seeing a lot of “I Love NY” ads lately. They also run here in the NYC market because they bolster our spirit.

As far as I’m concerned, you can go back to hating New York immediately. We don’t need people to feel as if they should love our just because of the terrorist tragedy. We think you should love us because of our culture, our history, our heritage and any number of a gazillion reasons why many New Yorkers feel that this city is the best place in the world in which to live.

BTW, Central Park is only good in the summer when there are tons of babes walking around, IMHO. When I need to get away (about every other weekend), I escape to Long Island.

4

Well, what I didn’t want was to get into city vs. city bashing. I really don’t. I love Chicago because I was born here and my family lives here and I’ve found great people and a great job, AND I’m looking at bright sunshine, a sparkling lake and wide open sky right now.

You’re right New York isn’t for everyone, and I said that right in the OP. I am one of the people that it isn’t for. I was told by a native New Yorker that “you’ll never make it in New York if you insist on wearing Pink. It just doesn’t work”. I can’t handle it.

My point was, and I think THespos illustrated it, I don’t ever want people PRETENDING they love Chicago just because some cow kicked over a latern and burned the place down, just like I don’t want to pretend like NYC is my number one tourism destination just because of “THE TRAGEDY”

And I should be able to say that.

jar

5

My take on the whole positive sentiment for New York thing post-Sept. 11 is like this: “However I feel about the city and the attitudes of New Yorkers, as of these tragedies, they are just people, and Americans, just like me. My brothers and sisters, and I grieve along side them, and will do what I can to help them.”

And I think it’s that way for most people. Nowhere in that do I see people having to love the city, root for the Yankees or anything else irrational like that.

And speaking as someone from a “city” with a population of 3,000 who would have to drive more than 3 hours to reach a city with 100,000 people, it does strike me as rather odd that a Chicagoan would rip on New York, particularly for its hustle and bustle, size and urban-ness.

Another thing to keep in mind: New York is facing an economic disaster on the tourism front post-Sept. 11. Which may explain why you are seeing more pro-NY commericals, media reports, etc.

As Giuliani said, for those who want to help New York, come visit. Go to shops, restaurants and shows. That’s what they really need.

That doesn’t mean it’s everybody’s duty. That’s just directed at those who might be so inclined, but feel some terrorism-related reservations.

6

Milo, I’ve already explained why I like Chicago. I don’t think favoring one city over another makes me a hypocrite.

And as far as it ‘not being our duty’ to love New York, what about all the people who said “well, you’ve got to root for the Yankees…I mean, after all that’s happened, right?”

no. I will never root for the Yankees, or the Islanders or Giants, Jets, Mets or Knicks.

Sorry.

jar

7

No, I don’t think you are wrong for hating NYC. Having never been there, I cannot offer up an honest opinion. But I do think that what you are seeing in people actually has nothing to do with the city itself, but more with the empathy that other Americans feel for the PEOPLE of NYC. It really has nothing to do with the building, culture, etc. of the city. Too many people have never been there to even begin to know what you are describing, but yet we do feel for the families involved. I doubt that I’ll ever go to the field in Pennsylvania where that plane crashed, but I still feel for the families of those left behind.
As far as the buildings go, my only opinion on that is that they were a symbol that was taken down. Something that we didn’t ever think would happen. Whatever they decide to put back there is fine, it should be up to the people in NYC since they are the ones that live there and are directly involved.
So don’t feel bad expressing your opinion.

8

When I first visited NYC, I wasn’t expecting to like it at all, so it kinda caught me by surprise when I discovered I really love the place.

That said, jarbaby, your friend’s a moron. Not everyone is going to like New York. And the question of whether you like NYC or not, and the impact of 9/11 on the city, are two completely unrelated things, IMO. Trust me, if they’d hit the Sears Tower instead of the WTC, it would make me feel sympathy for the citizens of Chicago, but it wouldn’t make me like the city.

[sub]Someday I’m going to have to get a tour of Chicago from someone who actually knows and likes the place; maybe my attitude would change. But I haven’t been able to discover the good parts on my own, during my brief stays there.[/sub]

9

**
I didn’t say that it did. I guess my point was, a few million rural Americans would make the exact same points about the city you love so much as you are making about the city you dislike so much. Just an observation; not any sort of condemnation of you or your opinion.

**
I’m guessing that where they are coming from was, “New Yorkers have been through so much. It would be kind of cool if the Yankees could win, and give them that little bit of joy and distraction, as they continue with their tragic daily realities.”

**
Me either.

10

We did have some rampant outbreaks of Yankee-rooting here in L.A. I must admit I participated willingly, but I think part of that is due to my fondness of venerable institutions and things. There’s no question the Yankees qualify as a venerable intitution or thing. They’ve been in NYC since the beginning of time and have their own stadium with their own name on it. Hell, even the Dodgers have been around since 1880-something, though not, of course in L.A. (We’re about the only city whose baseball team’s older than itself, but that’s another subject).

What did we have on the other side? The AZ Diamondbacks. It couldn’t be Phoenix, it takes the whole damn state to suport/finance a baseball team. And “Bank One Stadium” certainly doesn’t roll off your tongue like “Yankee Stadium”

BTW I think Chicago’s a great city, too.

11

We’re ready. In fact, we hate to admit it, but we’re kind of eager. See, we can’t go back to being condescending about the middle of the country and derisive toward the left coast until you start hating us again. I mean, geez, you were all so nice. You sent us love, blood, money, firefighters, you name it. For a little while, we were half expecting you to send us over a stripper and a pizza. And say what you want about us, but we back our friends. So we’re kind of stuck in an awkward place here.

And it’s not going to work. Our city is never going to get back to normal this way. We need to be hated. We thrive on that shit. In fact, do you know why the Yankees lost the World Series this year? That’s right, because all you guys weren’t rooting against them hard enough! You’re not doing the G-Men any favors, either.

So go back to your friend and tell him you consulted with a New Yorker. And the New Yorker says to him, “Yeah, I got your ‘how dare you’ right here!”

But then tell him to visit and support our economy, and we’ll say it to his face. Nicely.

12

FWIW, I’ve only lived in Chicago for two months, and I’m loving it. :slight_smile:

I’ve never been to NYC, so I can’t speak to that effect, but it’s certainly your prerogative to dislike it. Feeling sympathy for the people of a city and liking the city itself are two different things – and you said as much in the OP!

13

I never stopped disliking New York. I just stopped saying it as much.

14

Haha. When planning a trip to San Francisco I was told by two separate people that I should avoid wearing black. When I asked one of them what would happen if I did, he said, “Well, people don’t like it. I guess they won’t do anything to you, but they’ll think of you as a weird or shady character.”

Me, I love New York. New York is one of my favourite cities in the world. I’ve been to New York twenty times. One of the reasons I love New York is because I feel like everyone minds their own business there. I feel so free in New York City. People used to complain about the rudeness or self-centredness of New Yorkers. Well, that was what I liked about New York. New Yorkers seemed less fake to me than other Americans (no offence!). New York always seemed so real and so alive.

Recently, comments like, “What do you expect? I’m a New Yorker!” have struck me as a little bizarre. I understand the heightened feeling of solidarity and community spirit since September 11th, but this isn’t something which New York has been traditionally famous for, is it? I don’t mean to criticise it, but I still hope that New York hasn’t permanently lost the image which I loved in the past.

15

jarbabyj said:

But the Rangers are cool, right? Right? C’mon, everyone loves the Rangers! :slight_smile:

16

Dear New York,

I first arrived to see the glory that is New York City in 1996. I was 19 years old. I was at a point in life where I had chosen to abandon college to attempt a career as an artist. This meant the withdrawl of all financial support from my parents. In choosing you as my home, I chose responsibility for myself, for my food, for my rent, for all of the things a human needs.

I had $2000 and no job. I thought that would last me a few months, but I realized very quickly I was quite wrong. Sitting on the train one evening, I overheard some people who worked for SNL talking about acting. I asked them if they could offer any advice to someone who was new to the city and aspiring to be an actor. They said check out “Backstage”, an actors trade paper.

I did. It had auditions a plenty (open), as well as a help-wanted section which led me to an agency which I work for to this day. They have always been helpful in tailoring a schedule to meet my needs. Thank you New York.

I have now lived on my own in this city for almost 6 years. I have been in a number of plays and shows. I have learned the true value of friends, and met people of a caliber I did not think existed. I have found art, love, joy, kindred spirits, and many a late night party.

I have found the beauty that is turntablism. I have seen how small this world can be. I have found a group of friends whom I hold dear, and who would do anything to help their friends. I have seen live music that is the finest in the world. I have seen drama that makes your head spin.

I’ve played frisbee in Central Park, and I’ve skated at Rockefeller Center. I’ve been to the top of the Trade Towers and The Empire State building. I’ve seen World Series baseball, and I’ve seen the Radio City Rockettes. I’ve watched old movies in Bryant park on a summer night, and I’ve been to restauraunts bigger than some high schools. I’ve scene art more beautiful than I knew existed in the MET. I frequently partake in live Hockey at the Garden (one of the coolest rooms ever). I’ve rocked a bunch of clubs at a bunch of parties were the vibe was nothing but love. I have been able to make my life a DJ-actor-director-producer-filmmaker-temp-party-animal-transuhuman-likes-to-dance type of thing. It is turning out to be a ball. Thank you.

It seems to me that the people who live here are, for the most part, kind, intelligent, and openminded. The people who I have found to be the most negative in this city are the people who commute for hours and do nothing but work here. The negativity I’ve found has been in tourists looking judgementally at people who are different then them. Taking a quick gawk around and then going on and on about how much better they are then us.

No. This place DRAWS cool people to it. Then those cool people gravitate towards each other. There are millions of us who want nothing more than to have a good time and create something. We have an electricity and a momentum here that is unmatched anywhere in the world. I see more here in a day than some see in a year. I have found people that I am connected to in the strangest most magnificent ways.

I have lived in Boston, Cincinnatti, and Kentucky. I have seen Chicago, LA, Las Vegas, Miami, New Orleans, Seattle, Atlanta, Baltimore, Columbus and a slew of others. None of them hold a candle to the energy that New York has focused within it’s borders.

I love you New York, and I will probably live out the rest of my days here. We cannot be stopped, we are the capital of the world, and we have much love and art to give.

But we’ll also smack some puck bitches if we gots too, so don’t be fuckin’ stupid already forchrissake. Dafuck. When your in Brooklyn better act like you know.

DaLovin’ Dj

17

On one hand I support jarbaby’s right to hate NYC. Frankly, it’s good to keep people who like to wear pink out of the city. but there are some misapprehensions.

Rochester? You came from Rochester and claim NYC “smells”?

Bah.
Further

Bah again. And Chicago doesn’t? Double bah. River and lake stink and the architecture sucks too. (Well, we do have to ignore Queens, and Staten Island and perhaps outer Brooklyn, but I’ve always thought of Chicago as being rather like a large cold Queens except with 2 times as many Citibank backoffices and a larger number of fat people.)

Downtown & Midtown Manhattan =/ NYC.

Downtown & Midtown Manhattan =/ NYC.

Manhattan =/ NYC. Of course there are suburbs but who the fuck wants to go to Jersey or the Island on a regular basis?

Only to the weaklings. We’ve evolved into a stronger, superior race. Survival of the fittest and all that.

Or perhaps greater powers of self-deception. Hard to tell the difference.

Bah and double bah. Many people look crazed and incoherent, verging on gleeful. Most others just look tired.

Clearly you did not properly observe NYC. We’ll have to bill you for that.

18

hey, Hey, HEY! My folks live in Jersey City! :smiley:

Well, yeah, okay - They’re not crazy about it either :stuck_out_tongue: .

I was born upstate in Ithaca. Lived in Washington Heights in Manhattan for two years as a youngster. After my folks split I spent a lot of summers with the madre in NYC ( in the Village on West 10th, in Brooklyn on 7th and 7th near Prospect Park ).

Can’t say I ever developed much of an affection for the city, despite all the things it has going for it. 'course I never liked Chicago any better :wink: . As a place to live I vastly prefer my present abode in the SF Bay Area. On the East coast I am oddly partial to Pittsburgh. shrug But I’ve always liked New Yorkers, themselves ( and there’s more transplantees out here on the left-coast then you can shake a stick at ) :slight_smile: .

  • Tamerlane
19

jarbabyj, if you want to go back to hating NYC, go right ahead. :smiley:

I’ve been to Manhattan, Brooklyn, and the Bronx, a few times, and I’ve come to the conclusion that while I love visiting NY, I don’t really want to live there. It is too dirty and noisy up there, and I just can’t stand the crowds at rush hour. And while it’s nice to hide in the crowds, I just don’t like how NYers tune folks out. It’s like I’m talking to someone, and then abruptly there’s this wall between us when the conversation’s over. I can’t stand that, but I guess it’s just a survival mechanism they’ve come up with to deal with the fact that there are too many people in that city. I get the sense that NYers are generally really nice, but they won’t let themselves show it because they’re constantly on the alert for scam artists and whatnot. They’re very territorial too, and it’s very difficult for newcomers to break in and become members of the NY club. I was walking around in a West Indian neighborhood in Brooklyn with a friend of mine. She’s white and had just moved into an apartment there. Anyway, we got the strangest looks from folks. It was rather bizarre. She noted that folks had never been so rude to her before. I don’t understand why my being with her would make them stare. But after hearing my friends who’ve moved to NY complain about how difficult it is to make friends in the neighborhoods they’ve moved to, I’ve got to wonder how folks ever meet in that city when folks don’t talk to each other. I just can’t live that way. For those who can, I say more power to you.

While I felt awful for NYers because of 9/11, that still doesn’t change the fact that I wouldn’t want to live there permanently. I think it’s the Southerner in me. I’d miss Southern accents, and folks smiling and speaking to me on the streets, and wide open spaces, and quiet, and LOTS OF TREES AND GREENERY. Still, NY is a very interesting place.

I guess I’ve really been lucky too in my visits to NY. I’ve walked in parts of Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Manhattan at all hours of the day and night and had no problems. I hope that will continue to be the case when I go back to visit. So far NYers have been really nice to me. Some of them have even spoken to me. I can’t wait to go back there and visit again. I figure I can take the city for a couple of weeks before the South calls me home. :slight_smile:

20

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Don’t like midtown? Walk 20 blocks in any direction.

I would also agree with everyone’s resentment at lumping the success of the Yankees together with the 9/11 attack.

Speaking as a native New Yorker, I would like to extend a wholesome fuck you and the team you root for to all of the cretins who think the Yanks deserved to win because of the attack. We don’t need the Yankees to win to make us feel better.

We live in the greatest city in the world.

That is more than consolation enough.