The problem is that none of these are estrogen. They produce estrogen-like effects. They’ll never do what you want them to do. As others have said, you need to talk to a doctor. In addition, you could be duplicating some of the dosages by using the Estroven. You’re already taking some of the supplements contained in some forms of the Estroven. This could be really unhealthy. And if you wonder why you’re peeing a lot, the red clover’s a diuretic!
This really is a nightmare of supplements. Please stop taking them.
My ex has always wanted breasts, he just had an appointment with a dr. who is thinking of giving him anti-testosterone pills and maybe estrogen. Hes ambivalent because the ex had a stroke last November (hes 51) and hormones can play havoc sometimes.
My thought was to do exercises to make the pectoral muscles bigger. The idea is to push out whatever breast tissue you have and make it at least appear bigger. At least, that is the standard advice given to ciswomen with your question. I do a lot of bench pressing and dips and so forth, and I have bigger pecs than some of the women at my gym. Another piece of advice is to do exercises like cable rows, to pull your shoulders back and thereby push your chest out.
The drawbacks being [list=a][li]Any exercise for the pecs involves the front deltoids, so you will tend to look more masculine rather than less because your shoulders are bigger. []Same for the rows - your lats will get bigger, and you will get the V-taper that male bodybuilders want, but you may not.[]The higher your estrogen levels (and the lower your testosterone) the less it will work. People with higher estrogen and lower testosterone levels have trouble building muscle.[/list][/li][quote]
For over a month I’ve been taking herbs like red clover, wild yam, saw palmetto, vitex, black cohosh, dong Quai phytoestrogens, hops, progesterone cream fenugreek, fennel, and estroven(6pills)per day.
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I am not aware that any of the above (except the progesterone) have any real evidence behind them. Plus the standard drawbacks of such supplements - you can’t be sure of what you are getting, the dosage isn’t standard, etc. Plus, anything that has effects has side-effects - it is entirely possible that one or more of these will make something else worse, and none of them will make anything better.
I assume you already know about things like taping your chest to make your cleavage look deeper.
You need AFAICT to speak with a doctor experienced in these things. And implants are probably your best bet. Based on my experience, which is practically nil.
I’ll be pretty blunt. None of the stuff you mentioned is going to help, and taking it may trash your kidneys. I’m reminded of a former coworker, male, who scoffed at my regular tofu consumption at lunch, claiming that some estrogen analog would “feminize” me. It did not. It took injectable estradiol to do that. If that’s a route you want to pursue, I recommend speaking with an endocrinologist with experience in transgender health. Honestly, this route is just as (un)natural as chomping on saw palmetto.
Breast size is “you get what you get and you don’t get upset”. Age plays a role, but not to the extent that most people think. The older you are (I’m assuming that you’re in your mid-40s), the slower the changes will occur, but you’ll get some amount of breast development. Your nipples will get much larger. It’s very interesting. If you want large breasts, well, I should tell you that that probably won’t happen. Go in with low expectations. If your desire is rooted in transvestic fetishism, know that your libido will tank and you’ll likely lose the desire. If that’s the case, you can just stop treatment. You will probably experience a shift in weight. If you have a lot of muscle, you’ll lose it, rapidly. If you’re rail thin, you’ll put on weight. I went from about 125 to 135 lbs, largely due to breast, butt and thigh fat. Other side effects are impotence and loss of physical strength.
A breast augmentation is an option that I know little about. You may have some difficulty finding someone to do the work. I believe that I would need a therapist’s letter, but this dude did not: Brian Zembic. Go figure. I don’t see why the health risks would be any different from a cis woman getting a BA.
A desire for a “natural” solution may indicate that you’re looking for something with a gradual onset that you intend to hide from a partner. If that’s the case:
Please please please trust your partner and be open.
You can’t hide hormone therapy. The changes are too noticeable.
My private messages are open. I’ve heard it all before, so don’t feel embarrassed.
I had never previously heard of this guy, but that story reminds me of the woman my mother worked with back in the 1980s who, when she and her husband decided their family was complete, went to about a dozen doctors until she found one who would do a hysterectomy even though nothing whatsoever was wrong with her uterus. :eek: As my sister pointed out, “That’s precisely the doctor you would NOT want to do it!” Same thing here; both of them were fortunate that they didn’t have serious complications.
I do remember one of those “My Surgery Was Botched” programs which featured a male model who thought he was getting pectoral implants, but after he healed, he realized he had, in fact, received female breast implants because they were just plain old too big. He’d spent all his money on the surgery, so he couldn’t afford to have them replaced by someone who actually knew what they were doing. This doctor was filmed in another procedure using a cake server to widen the pocket where he was placing the implants so one wonders if that’s how that particular operation was done. IIRC, he WAS in the U.S. and did his procedures out of a storefront.
p.s. Dr. Dubrow, the plastic surgeon, is the brother of the late Quiet Riot singer Kevin Dubrow.
Plastic surgery, particularly those related to cosmetic and gender-affirming procedures, is full of these sorts of anecdotes. It’s gross. But back to the OP, estradiol valerate is about as “natural” as you’re going to get. Anything with enough activity to effect breast growth is going to have severe side-effects though. I have a feeling that michaelrosenberg274 isn’t coming back to this thread, though.