[QUOTE=threemae]
Whoa, easy killer. We don’t want him either!
In fact Libertarians have overwhelmingly objected to the conduct of the Bush administration in invading Iraq and their intrusions upon the civil liberties of citizens and non-citizens alike in the pursuit of the Global War on Terror… blah blah blah.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, you are right, that was unfair of me. Is there a registered fascist party in the US?
Jim
Whoa, I have completely failed to notice this page went on for six pages beyond the post I was responding to. Ignore this post.
I guess I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. If you’ve read Nava’s posts in the past you’ve seen she just about doesn’t like anyone. Her family sucks, the Spanish system of education sucks, the companies she’s worked with suck, every country she’s worked in sucks, everybody she’s worked with sucks, and now 9-11 was ‘fun’.
She just seems to me like an unhappy person feeding off of unhappiness. No world changing visions here. Just one unhappy digital typer getting everyone all wound up. And it worked. Now she’s the center of attention. Kudos Nava.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Canada was an avenue of attack for terrorists. The only person you have to blame for us beefing up border security is your government. For years now Canada has not taken securing its borders seriously, and since we trusted Canada and kept our border with you relatively lax in security, terrorists have used Canada as a route to more easily penetrate the United States.
Hopefully Canada has learned something from all this, I know the United States did–I’m sure we all wish we could have left things the way they are. But that would have required Canada getting serious about controlling who it lets come into its country from its other borders, and that was most obviously not going to happen.
As far as the Iraq war being “illegal” care to explain what laws were broken? By who? Or better yet, explain the concept of an “illegal war.”
[/QUOTE]
Except that every fucking plane took off from within the U.S. to maximize the amount of fuel in the tanks. When OBL attacked the WTC with vans loaded with explosives in the 90s was that also Canada’s fault? I am also pretty sure that the terrorists in the 9/11 attacks were trained to fly in your fucking country so keep your bullshit in your mouth while you go to hell.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Canada was an avenue of attack for terrorists. The only person you have to blame for us beefing up border security is your government. For years now Canada has not taken securing its borders seriously…
[/QUOTE]
This of course is utter, ignorant bullshit. Canada’s borders are far better protected than those of the United States, and just as well as most any democratic nation.
Actually, terrorists mostly enter the United States from Europe. (Quick note: Canada’s not in Europe.)
I’m not saying I am in agreement with featherlou, who in her usual fashion took the shrill, hurt route and has a bee in her bonnet about Americans (or, as she calls them, “United Statesians,” because she even hates the word American) but you clearly don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, so shut up.
[QUOTE=Nava]
But really, there was a lot of over reaction, and yes, watching that was kind of fun. In, like I said, a black humor and lots of rolleyes kind of way, and when it wasn’t offensive.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, yes? Like the bombings over the decades by ETA were “fun”?
Like the Madrid commuter train bombings were “fun”? What the fuck kind of sicko thinks people dying in a terrorist attack is “fun” or “funny”? It’s not funny, even in a dark, macabre way.
Backpedal much?
What kind of a sick fuck are you, to say that in a memorial thread? In a pit thread, discussing American over-reaction, maybe that could be given a pass but where you said it?
Tell me - at funerals with grieving widows and children do you feel compelled to comment on what a jackass the deceased was, and how fucking funny his death throes were to watch?
Nava, you were out of line and grossly offensive. It doesn’t matter which country or which terror attack or how large or small the event might have been. What you said was entirely inappropriate for ANY memorial thread.
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
What you said was entirely inappropriate for ANY memorial thread.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t consider that thread, which I also have posted in, to be a “memorial thread.”
[QUOTE=lobstermobster]
Did you guys really cry at 9/11?
[/quote]
Um, yes. As one of the partners at my firm was crying while, I (very much NOT a cryer) didn’t cry until my mother finally heard from my aunt that my cousin got out of the first tower hit. My boss hugged me when I finally heard that my cousin was alive..and that was before I learned that he was not in a nearby building, but was actually in the first tower hit.
Who in the fuck is comparing Princess Di to 9/11?
Oh, fuck Toby Keith with a rusty spike. And Lee Geenwood, too.
[QUOTE=Nava]
That was not the reason we were given. We weren’t told “we have enough material resources, we’ll call you back when we have figured out how you can help.” We were told “no you’re not allowed to fly in.”
[/QUOTE]
Uh, right - the entire US airspace (and I think the rest of North America, too, for a short while) was shut down. We have thousands of airplanes parked at airports that lacked the infrastructure to service and refuel them in a timely manner.
So, to salve the delicate sensibilities of Spanish rescue workers we should import unneeded people to stand around and do nothing while our aviation infrastructure is in total chaos? Oh, yeah, that would have been “fun”, too, no doubt… :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=featherlou]
ETA: I just realized what the U.S. government is doing with it’s actions at home - it’s the hand-waving that a magician does to deflect attention from what he’re really doing. The U.S. government doesn’t give a damn about any more terrorist actions at home. Damn, that took me a long time to figure out.
[/QUOTE]
You just figured that out, Lou? Yeah. Look at the laws. They don’t protect us worth a damn. Just make us easier to control.
I dunno. I grew up targeted by a nuclear warhead or three. I went to school near a prison infamous world-wide. We had bomb threats yearly, and a few actual bombs.
Terrorist stuff isn’t new. At least, not to me.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
You morons can barely manage your own country, you had to have a tin-pot dictator like Franco leading you around like sheep for fifty years, after all. Why the fuck would we want a bunch of incompetent, fuck ups from Spain helping us? We have fire fighters here in the United States. We don’t need your help, just like we didn’t need your help in Iraq if your response to terrorism is to tuck your tails between your legs and whimper out just like Al-Qaeda wanted you to do. Al-Qaeda should give you guys an award for being such disgusting cowards.
[/QUOTE]
Yo, asshole, put your money where your mouth is. Take a trip to Madrid, walk into any commercial establishment and I’d pay you to say those words at loud. What happens afterwards won’t be pretty – for you of course. Then again, we have excellent ER facilities, and it wouldn’t cost you a dime, since even non-residents (as long as they are legal) have access to our (gaaasp!) socialized health care.
If there is one thing that can be said about us Spaniards, it’s the **historical fact ** that, for the most part, there isn’t an ounce of cowardice in our blood.
As for Nava’s post, much ado about nothing. Not particularly well-written by her own standards, nor nearly as outrageous as so many of you would like to make it.
I certainly didn’t laugh on that particular day, living as I did approximately 50 miles from Ground Zero, and also gave more than my share of blood – being O negative, I’m part of a minority of Universal blood-donors. Wish I could have done more.
Anyway, although we’ve never asked each other directly, I have a strong feeling that Nava and I are at opposite ends of Spain’s political spectrum – but as the reasoning behind her much maligned and badly worded post seems to have risen the passion of many, to me, it only comes to show that mostly all of Spain was one agaisnt the deluded overreaction of BushCo’s cabal.
The End. Almost.
Nava, e-mail me so I can send you the bill for services rendered. 
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
Embarrassed?
Really Ninja Chick?
Perhaps these guys can help restore your pride in your country.
[/quote]
Well…no. We’ve got lots of hardworking, dedicated people in this country who choose to do a dangerous, underpaid job. Two of my uncles are amongst them, including one who once had a burning wall fall on him. And they do it well and I’m damn glad they do. But that’s not uniquely American, nor does it instill any particular national pride in me. I’m thankful that they’re there for people (like they were when my neighbor set his house on fire. Or after I was in a serious car accident. Or when a friend of mine was in a surfing accident and nearly died.) and I have great respect, but I don’t see any connection between ‘people doing an essential, dangerous job’ and ‘yay America’.
And again as I said before: They’re doing their job. There’s not one firefighter nor cop nor medic who doesn’t realize their job is dangerous. Sometimes they die and yes it is absolutely tragic. Are they saintly? Maybe, though like most humans, probably not.
I won’t question whether or not you really were effected. But - well, as I said, I had fun on that day. I had an easy day at school and no homework, because of the attacks. Am I a bad person for having enjoyed that? What about if I say I laughed when the school tried to tell us all to wear red, white and blue on the 12th?
Who the fuck are ‘you, me, and everyone who’s on our side’? Anyone who happens to be born within these man-made borders? “On our side” of what? This idiotic “War on Terror”? The idea that murder is bad? Some middle ground between the two? Because I’m not on ‘our side’ of the War on Terror; I think it’s entirely counter-productive and just spawns more terror and I want it to stop, immediately.
Sure, the standard of living in America is hugely higher than in a staggering amount of the rest of the world. That’s because we’re rich, plain and simple. It’s got nothing to do with “Being American”, it’s got to do with “I’d like plain drinking water and fewer militias abducting my children and raping me.”
And kindly keep me the fuck out of your unrealistic, jingoistic idea of what “America” is.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
The simple fact of the matter is, the Spanish people are cowards who cave to terrorism. You’ve done nothing to refute the fact that Zapatero was cheered on by the Spanish people as he committed one of the greatest acts of cowardice in world history. Spain was once a mighty and proud nation, and it has been reduced to little more than the lapdog of extremists barbarians who rely on cowardly attacks against the civilized world. I can’t necessarily fault the Spanish for not wanting to be involved in a tough war in Iraq that they felt they shouldn’t be involved in. However after the attacks, they should have realized that withdrawing would be seen as a sign of cowardice. Furthermore, it should have shown the Spanish that they were intimately involved in the war on terror, that Iraq was a key battleground in said war, and that despite how hard the path was in the face of terrorism they had to stand strong. Instead they laid down in a pathetic display that almost makes me sick to my stomach.
Al-Qaeda won a victory not because the attacks were successful, but because of Spanish cowardice, it was hailed as a victory by radical Islamists every where and used to further entrench the idea in the Islamic world that the West is “weak.”
[/QUOTE]
**
My post is my cite, you fuckin’ ignorant motherfucker.
Here’s a C-note. Now go buy yourself a clue.**
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Canada was an avenue of attack for terrorists. The only person you have to blame for us beefing up border security is your government. For years now Canada has not taken securing its borders seriously, and since we trusted Canada and kept our border with you relatively lax in security, terrorists have used Canada as a route to more easily penetrate the United States.
[/QUOTE]
News flash: The terrorists in 9/11 got through via US borders and did not come into the US via Canada. Now who’s border’s did they get through?
For that matter, I don’t think I’ve heard of an actual case where someone who attacked or planned to attack the US had come to the US via Canada, although I think a couple people we arrested in Canada had come in through the US to Canada.
To me this just sounds like the “BLAME CANADA” song from South Park.
I remember in the wake of the attacks, wondering how long it would take for the US to blame Canada, and we get blamed & badgered at every in roads, remember the blackout, Americans tried to blame Canada too, and Canada not fighting in Iraq? Well I guess it isn’t good enough we are in Afghanistan, and we thought we’d be more cautious because the UN inspectors disagreed with your government that Iraq was part of the attacks & had weapons of mass destruction.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
News flash: We don’t give a fuck what you think. We’re bigger than you and stronger and we don’t need you.
[/QUOTE]
I too, and many other Canadians felt like we got a swift kick in the back by a school yard bully with exactly the mentality your news flash evokes.
As for me, I spent the morning watching TV an reeling in horror, I have a friend who lived in DC, and I worried. I got an email, and he was fine.
In the evening I went out with a few friends to console my mind, and started to fear what the US would do, and nearly every fear about protectionism, warmongering, and political manipulation my friends and I discussed came to pass.
[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Nava, you were out of line and grossly offensive. It doesn’t matter which country or which terror attack or how large or small the event might have been. What you said was entirely inappropriate for ANY memorial thread.
[/QUOTE]
'Kay, we get it. You’re offended. You’re all offended. Can we stop this now? Nava made a comment. It was maybe a little silly, but honestly, was it deserving of this reaction? IMHO, no, it was not. But people expressed their outrage and tempers flared and now we can all relax and go back to what made this board great. Witty oneliners and mockery of the clueless. Not this angry gratuitous ego-massaging.
And all of you picking on Nava’s Spain thing should knock it off. We all have our little posting habits and you guys are no exceptions.
.
Oh, what the hell. There’s still folks shrieking at Nava. Might as well get in on the [del]fun[/del] morbid fascination.
Ribbon magnets everywhere? Silly. Holding competitions while driving around town to see who can find the most ribbon magnets, or the most ironic use of them? Fun. The ribbon magnet reading “Support the US Ribbon Magnet Industry?” Seriously fun.
Tiny American flags everywhere, put up and proudly proclaimed by people who never took off their hat for the national anthem a single time in their lives? Fun. Watching flags attached to auto aerials gradually disintegrate over a year or two of driving? Fun.
A badly plagiarized Calvin pissing on an Arab? Frustrating and annoying. The bizarre lengths to which manufactures of t-shirts, stickers and magnets go to cash in? Funny.
Watching grannies “randomly” searched by an ineffectual and under-trained TSA? Sucks to be Gran, but kinda fun. Seeing piles of crochet hooks and nail files–and now lighters and water bottles–amassed at the security checkpoint? Fun. Getting pulled for extra screening on every single flight I fly on an employee pass because the TSA drones have a quota and know that I’ll be fast and easy? Well, not fun, but amusing.
The color-code terror chart? Fun. The giant harrumphing sounds from our elected officials? Fun.
Fundagelical nutballs blaming the attacks on teh gays? Fun as hell. Calls to nuke Mecca? Fun. Attacks on Sikhs ‘cuz they look furrin’? Yeeesh.
My Pet Goat? Drags a bit in the middle, but fun.
A very many people reacted in a very many absurd ways after the WTC attack. I have found many of those absurdities diverting, engrossing, fascinating, morbidly entertaining, or fun. Sorry if that makes me a fuck, except not.
.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
<snip>Oh, fuck Toby Keith with a rusty spike. And Lee Geenwood, too.
[/QUOTE]
That I think we can all agree on.
[QUOTE=featherlou]
That I think we can all agree on.
[/QUOTE]
Why do you hate America?
.
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Some of our ostensible “allies” actually don’t have our best interests at heart. Shit, none of them do, they have their best interests at heart.
[/QUOTE]
When our closest and dearest ally doesn’t pay it’s dues for softwood lumber we should think what? Send our boys and girls to die to fit your neocon desires? Who doesn’t have their own interests at heart? Jesus! People died in your country because of idealogical differences and your best approach is to be an idealogical bastard?
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
No, not at all. My first statement conveyed my thoughts on Spain, that being that Spain is an embarrassment, that it is poor, and that it is led by spineless men.
Spain is one of the poorer countries in Western Europe, a region of the world with mostly high per capita income states. Spain is led by a man who is almost overfilled with pride in his own cowardice.
[/QUOTE]
I’d advice to quit while your behind. While stuck in hole stop digging:
Spanish economy ‘at its best for 29 years’
**
More ignorance fighting: Transition to a modern economy
The Richest and Most Powerful Country of the Time
Hardly the piece of shit you’d like us to be…in the real world anyway.