I do not believe that people looking t that stage saw the symbol until it was pointed out to them. I think it shows a complete lack of information on what the other side thinks or feels. It is not a nazi symbol, it’s a stage with a geometric resemblance obscure symbol to almost evrryone but a hardcore historian or nazi (or for people who see nazis in everything).
I cant’ imagine that more than 1% of the conservatives at that event would even recognise the symbol when shown to them, let alone know it’s a symbol of three or four units of the SS.
When you try hard enough, everything is a nazi dogwhistle, everything. It’s like the ok sign where we knew it was a joke and even then, even when no white supremacist had ever used it as a white supremacist symbol ever if the history of white supremacy, it was suddenly worse than a swastika.
It’s not as obscure as you think. I recognized it as soon as I saw it. It’s probably the third most common white supremacist symbol (after the swastika and the SS lightning bolts). But if you’re not part of the white supremacy movement or law enforcement, you probably don’t dig too deeply into white supremacy symbols. I can assure you that anyone who’s even on the periphery of the white supremacist movement would have seen this symbol. Which is what makes it a dog whistle; the insiders know it and the outsiders don’t.
The modified ‘Odal Rune’ is not an obscure symbol; it is quite recognizable to anyone studying either the Nazi regime or current neo-fascist organizations. That you “cant’ imagine that more than 1% of the conservatives at that event would even recognise the symbol when shown to them,” isn’t an argument against this; they aren’t trying to mind-wipe mainstream conservatives, they are nod-and-winking to the same groups that attempted to overthrow a legitimate election and nearly succeeded in assaulting and capturing the Vice President and numerous legislators as the explicit behest of then-President Trump, while being able to officially deny that it means anything to that 99% you estimate don’t see or wouldn’t recognize it.
The degree of mental gymnastics to convince oneself that the rune-shaped oddly inconvenient stage layout is not actually a deliberate choice makes a pretzel look straight. What happened to all of this energetic speculation about why a president wouldn’t have a flag pin on his lapel or why he chose to wear a tan suit?
Normally one should give the benefit of the doubt that someone overlooked this. Someone should have noticed, hey, that looks a hell of a lot like a neo-Nazi symbol. So yeah, normally I’d lean towards it being an accident.
But not in 2021. Lest we forget, there was an armed insurrection at the Capitol less than 8 weeks ago by the exact neo-Nazi types who would recognize this symbol, the exact neo-Nazi types who would be watching the convention and looking for hidden meanings in the speeches. And it is being staged by, and for the benefit of, the organization who planned, coordinated, and executed that insurrection. They do NOT merit the benefit of the doubt, and they should KNOW they do not. So any hand-waving it away should be transparent to anyone paying attention at this point.
I would disagree. It’s sort of a “reverse-PC” if I can put it that way. The hard-core white supremacists know that for a major political group or party to expressly state white supremacy or anti-semitism can be a killer, publicly.
So they’re okay with groups that put up a white supremacist symbol to show their sympathies, but then back-pedal in public if they’re called on it. The hard-core would get the main message, and also get the “I have to deny it, wink-wink” and conclude, “We’re good with them.”
Back in 2016, I heard Trump give a speech where he said, “This election is probably the last chance we have to save our country for ourselves.” I immediately said to Mrs P: “That’s a common white-supremacy phrase.” (I’ve had to deal with white-supremacy from time to time as part of my job.) She didn’t get it until I explained how frequently that phrase appears in white supremacy doom-saying, along with the 14 Words.
I’ve assumed ever since that Trump is a white-supremacist to some degree; haven’t seen anything in the past five years to shake that opinion.
I stopped giving Newt Gingrich “the benefit of the doubt” when he was spouting phrases like “Compassionate conservatism” and “personal responsibility” while serving his wife with divorce papers when she was recovering from cancer surgery. To my shame, it took me much longer with the GOP as a whole, but when they began attacking the legacy of John McCain the depth of their hypocrisy became as apparent as the Vitezi Rend medal on Sebastian Gorka’s frogged military-esque jacket that he he wore to Trump’s Inaugural Ball. He’s just an aiguillette and pelisse short of full-on Austria-Hungary nobility cosplayer, or else a Bond villain whose plan is to destroy humanity and recreate it in Euro-colonial fashion from his secret lunar colony, and it isn’t as if he was just fringe hanger-on or low rent Trump org fixer; this guy was Deputy Assistance to the President on foreign policy issues.
The order was founded by Admiral Horthy, the Regent of Hungary.
Horthy was a right bastard, and essentially a Nazi before Hitler came up with Nazism. He was a virulent anti-Semite, and also practised ethnic cleansing in the new independent Hungary, aimed against Austrian Germans. The period was called the “White Terror”.
Mrs Piper’s family was Austrian Germans in Hungary and they got out in the early 1920s, before it got really bad.
@Kimstu: your arguments come off to me as not quite getting what a dogwhistle is. A dogwhistle is always set up where the allusion looks like it isn’t intentional. That’s the plausible deniability.
It’s entirely expected that they’ll add some cover by having some pro-Jewish statements. Their target audience is used to lying about their intentions while secretly showing what they are.
No, what’s relevant is that, after they were made aware of the Nazi symbolism—and it was shown to be factually accurate—they did nothing to remove or mitigate the issue. Regardless of whether they originally came up with it or not, the fact they didn’t try to stop it means CPAC owns the messaging.
There will be Nazis who will see it and say “See, they may pay lip service to caring about Jewish people. But they’re clearly on our side! No one could do that by accident.”
Exactly what I said. Most people don’t study the nazi regime or current neo-fascist organizations.
Since the stage was up on a corner the shape makes perfect sense. If the made it an inverted triangle someone would’ve said that it was mocking the nazi symbol for homosexuals.
That is a warning and a suspension for you. It is a 1 day but we’ll be discussing whether it should be longer. That is both insulting and disgusting thing to say to another poster and inexplicable all at once.
Just to add, do we need to say the we won’t tolerate joking about death camp victims and trolling other posters?
I think this thread has run its course. I see little reason to reopen it.
