This is a wild set of statements. In his prime, LeBron James was an elite defender who was named All-Defense 6 times and guarded everyone from Kobe to Tim Duncan to Chris Paul. Maybe not quite as good as Jordan, but hardly anybody ever was. James is also a gifted passer, one of the best who’s ever lived - there are only three players ever with more career assists, and one of them is nicknamed “The Point God.”
And the numbers really don’t support the idea that James is some kind of gunner who shoots and shoots and shoots. He averages fewer field goal attempts and way more assists per game than Jordan did, or Kobe did, and that’s without accounting for the modern pace of play. And if .505 is a solid but unremarkable shooting percentage, then I don’t know what non-center’s is remarkable. Jordan (.510)? Kobe (.447)? Bird (.496)?
If I had to choose between them, I’d pick Jordan over LeBron, and maybe Kareem, too. But LeBron James is and has always been just awesome at basketball, and he’s playing right now. It’s surprising to me how many people hate him so much - twenty years from now it’ll be cool to have watched him live.
It’s not surprising if you remember he is an egotistical self-promoter.
Spoken to Shaq in an interview: “Listen, big fella. Me personally. I’mma take myself,” LeBron said. “I’mma take myself against anybody that’s ever played this game. Everyone’s going to have their favorite. Everyone’s going to decide who their favorite is. But I know what I’ve brought to the table, what I bring to the table every single night.”
“Every single night”; really? Then how come you lost 6 of the 10 Finals you’ve appeared in?! Let us not forget that we’re not talking about him being a “great” player. He obviously is one of the top players ever. We’re talking about the “greatEST” player, which means you finish, you always FINISH! No excuses. When MJ reached a Final, he won because that’s what you do if you are the “greatEST” player of all time.
Oh, and another thing. MJ played in what is arguably the most physical period in NBA history. Hand checking and hard fouls were the rule. MJ never whined or flopped, he just won. Poor LeBron; after one game against the Pistons you’d have to sit him on the bench and give him a lollypop and a teddy bear. LOL
I’ve always felt that in assessing GOAT status, basketball players should be broken into two separate categories: big men, and everyone else. Comparing Kareem with MJ isn’t fruitful IMHO.
I also have this radical notion that GOAT is a tier, not a single player. MJ and LeBron are both GOAT-class players, as are a handful of other players. (As a coach once said when questioned about one of his players, “I don’t know if he’s in a class by himself, but I do know it doesn’t take long to call roll”)
Similar to Bill Simmons’s Basketball pyramid, where the top 13 players are at the apex (Russell, both MJ’s, Kareem, Bird, Wilt, Duncan, etc), then a middle row of 26, ending at Tom Chambers.
I hadn’t seen this, but yes. I would have dropped Duncan and West down and moved Shaq and LeBron up in that list (LeBron at 20!?!), then there are 5 big men GOATs, (Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq) and 6 non-big men (Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, LeBron, the Big O). Still very exclusive.
So KD is fleeing the Nets, and the Lakers are dumping Westbrook, who can’t seem to fit in anywhere. These “superstar teams” don’t seem to work out very well. Even James can’t prod the Lakers into playoff competition.
I see my old team, the Trailblazers, has once again done their classic move of getting rid of one of their best acquisitions (Josh Hart) in exchange for a possible high draft pick; in other words, dumping a guy who is integrated into the team for someone that will have to spend three years learning how to play in the NBA. At least they beat GS last night.
The Wolves redeemed their embarrassing loss to Denver by whupping the hapless Jazz last night, even without Gobert, who seems to spend a lot of time on the bench.
Points per game are high now, but were actually higher during Wilt Chamberlain’s heyday; the all time peak was the 1961-62 season, which of course was the season Wilt scored fifty a game. It was only a tiny bit lower than it is now during Jordan’s peak; the nadir was the early 2000s.
Sure, but his Celtics stint was kind of his low point. You had KD back him up to the end and Lebron campaigning to get him on the Lakers after playing with him in Cleveland.
The Poeltl trade absolutely mystifies me. Why would you give away a first round draft pick, even by itself, for Jakob Poeltl? I don’t get it. Even a protected pick.
I don’t have a problem with the guy, he’s alright, but he’s been in the league a long time and has definitively proven he’s not the next Hakeem Olajuwon. He arrived yesterday and played badly as Toronto absolutely choked the game away.
Maybe there’s something I’m missing here, but what is Toronto trying to do? If they do manage to limp into the play-in, they’re not actually going anywhere. Even if they win the play in round they’re gonna be annihilated in the first round by a real playoff team like Boston or Milwaukee. Oh, and Poeltl is a free agent after this season, and there’s no reason to think he has any special interest in remaining in Toronto.
I saw only one for the big O above. Oscar Robertson was a complete player. Averaged almost a triple double for his career. Played defense (Kobe - nah). I guess he’s too far back for most to remember. (Pepperidge Farm and I remember).
Oh I bet someone has come up with something WAY dumber than that. Like how a guy did on Thursdays or something.
Because everything is computerized and cross indexed now, technically, basically EVERYTHING is a stat. Do you want to know who led the NHL last year in even strength goals by a right handed shooter in November against Eastern Conference opponents? That’s a thing you can get.
I think the whole East vs West thing just led to unbalanced teams so they wanted to make things more interesting. I think its made things worse to be honest.
for the big O above. Oscar Robertson was a complete player. Averaged almost a triple double for his career. Played defense (Kobe - nah). I guess he’s too far back for most to remember. (Pepperidge Farm and I remember).