Need ammo for the air conditioner fight

Factual Questions
1

In this miserable heat we are having, the person who controls the air conditioning in this house is being very conservative in its use. Since she basically stays on the lower level of the house, sitting in a chair right next to a vent (yes, I’ve closed the vent) she feels comfortable, if not downright cold: she’s a woman who believes suffering is good for your soul. The thermostat is set at 80.

Upstairs, we are roasting. Temperatures range from 85 to 95…and that’s when the air is on. I’ve shut as many vents as I can on the lower levels of the house. When she lets us know she’s turning on the air, we shut all the windows and turn off the fans. She doesn’t always tell us. The thermostat is on the main level of the house, and we are behind a closed door, so the temperature upstairs doesn’t really affect the thermostat.

The major problem is at night. She turns the air off because " it’s cooler outside at night than during the day" and she opens her bedroom window and runs a fan. But it’s not that much cooler at night, and it’s still humid. Very humid. Upstairs, we swelter at night. We run an attic fan (huge thing) to try and get some air movement. We open all four windows on three sides of the house. And we each have an oscillating fan blowing directly on us in order to try and sleep. It’s still 85 and above, until just before dawn. And humid. Very humid.

So to my logical brain, it would make more sense from an energy use standpoint to just keep the air running all night. The air inside the house is cooler and drier than the outside air, and the unit doesn’t have to work as hard to maintain the temperature, and then the house is already cool when the day gets the hottest, so the unit isn’t fighting to lower the temperature. I think letting all that warm humid air in at night just makes the unit work that much harder and longer the next day to cool and dehumidify…and then when it finally gets comfortable, she shuts it off again.

To her mind, you should turn the air off at night if there’s even only a ten degree difference in the daytime/nighttime temperature, and if you get hot and sweaty and can’t sleep, well, then, suffering is character building. If she thinks it will save money, that’s what she will do. I think she’s wasting money because it just has to work harder the next day.

So which one of us is right? Which way saves money? Because if she is convinced it will save money, she will forego the suffering.

2

I don’t know a factual answer to your question, but damn I feel sorry for you! Who is this AC Nazi you live with?

Maybe you could offer to pay any increase in the power bills that goes above the average. Or, can you get a window AC unit?

3

I’m assuming that you’re not all at work during the day for some reason, so the house has people in it all day long.

There’s actually not enough information to really solve the problem, or else I’m not smart enough to figure out an exact, numerical solution without making a lot of assumptions on things like the heat load of the house, the efficiency of the condenser, etc. I mean, I could figure it out for my house, but then I know an awful lot about my house and its inside and outside environment.

I will say that having it cool and being able to have refreshing sleep is going to have a definite positive health effect, as opposed to sweltering and having poor sleep at night. I’d pitch it from the mental/physical health aspect. Having better sleep will make it easier to deal with the heat during the day (IMO).

4

There have been a lot of HVAC threads, but I haven’t seen one quite like this where you alternate between A/C and windows wide open. Clearing the humidity does complicate matters. Have a look at my unofficial FAQ for prior threads.

It must be said that your problem is not the A/C, it’s the “person” who controls the A/C. Why does she get to be the one in charge?

Does your system have louvers where the ducts come out of the blower to block ducts to different parts of the house? You might be able to block the lower floor and redirect it all to the upper floor.

5

I would think explaing to her how much extra work it takes to pull all that humidity out of the house at once might help. Other then that, maybe tell her you’ve found some mold growth??? As others have asked…Who is this lady? (ie grandparent, friends mom, renter)

6

This makes no sense to me. The AC is *controlled * by temperature. If it’s too hot in the house, then it’s too hot in the house, regardless of what the outdoor temperature is. Yea, opening the windows for a brief period might accelerate the cooling. But if it’s still too hot after doing this, close the windows and turn the AC back on.

At any rate… 80? That’s too damn hot. IMO do whatever you can to adjust the set point down to at least 74, if not cooler.

7

Having the fan run in the house lowers humidity. There is no way I would allow for someone to tell me I can’t have the A/C on in this heat, it’s dangerous, icky and downright rude. I would tell her to switch floors for the night, she sleeps in the hotass upstairs and you guys downstairs and switch back in the morning.

8

The hand that rules the AC is the owner of the house, my elderly mother. Due to some recent financial problems, I’m unable to chip in on the electric bill, but even if I could, to her it’s a comfort and energy use issue. We can’t switch places in the house because she can’t cope with the stairs. Even if money were absolutely no issue, she’d think it wasteful to run the air all night…she gets cold. Which to me is silly…there are a thousand blankets, and she sleeps in a nightgown. We’re the ones who have to sleep naked, no sheets, with a fan directly on us.

It was so hard to get to sleep last night, and then the attic fan started acting up. It runs on a timer, and I don’t know if it is the fan or the timer that’s the problem. It shuts itself off, and then starts up again. We were worried about it overheating, so we shut it off. At three am my son couldn’t stand it anymore and turned it back on, and there was a definite decrease in the temperature. I finally got to sleep about 4:30.

Mom reads all the articles about saving energy, and they all recommend setting your thermostat higher…so she does. She knows how dangerous this heat can be for seniors, so she isn’t gardening this week. She hates to run the air conditioning in her car, too. We had quite a battle to get her to install central air a few years back…all this house had ever had was a small window unit in the livingroom, so she’s used to sleeping in the heat. It’s a Depression-generation thing, plus fear over horror stories about huge electric bills that fill the news…even though her normal bill is under $100 for a four bedroom, two-story house with full basement. She constantly complains that we use too much electricity in general…she won’t turn on the lights at night until it’s quite dark. Comfort is not a good argument with her. Safety and energy efficiency and price is.

Yesterday, the electric company called to inform us that there would be planned rolling blackouts in our city over the next few hours. Instead of watching her beloved Jeopardy and Wheel of fortune on the TV, she dug out her portable radio that gets TV sound and listened…in the dark kitchen…and shut the air off. She didn’t open the windows because she wanted to keep the cool in until dark. Her explanation was that if the TV or the lights were on when the power went off, then it would be in the “on” position when the power went back on, and if she was already in bed she’d have to get back up and turn things off. She’s heard that having the air on when the power is restored creates a load on the transformers, and she doesn’t want to be responsible for creating an undue load on the power grid at startup. Other people are just selfish and not thinking of the good of the community if they don’t turn everything off in anticipation of the announced blackout…which by the way never happened to our neighborhood. And she apparently missed the part of the phone notification that said this would happen between 6:30 and 8:30, not at random times during the night and early morning.

Our comfort up here, and that of the cats, does not matter to her. As I said, even if I were paying the whole bill, she’s more concerned about wasting electricty, and people these days are too pampered and keep their houses (and churches, and stores, and doctor’s offices) too cold for her. Only an argument about energy efficiancy will work.

The other morning, she actually turned the air on before leaving for church. We drove separately (don’t say it…there are reasons). Before I left, I turned it down to 72 from 80, and called my son the minute church was over to have him turn it back up to 82 before she got home. I know it probably didn’t help much, but psychologically it did. She just doesn’t get it that even though she may be comfortable, the upstairs needs a little more time to cool down.

9

Don’t have any help for the A/C problem, but can suggest that you clean the attic fan blades and motor. Get some compressed air and a vacuum cleaner and go to town on that thing.

It’s probably overheating, which will cause it to switch off and on like that. The most common cause of overheating is blocked vents and dust in the motor. Cleaning the blades will make it run better, too.

You do have my sympathy…I remember my mom running the A/C gauge all the way to the top (95+), and then switching it off when it came on, because she was working outside anyway. I spent most of my summers at the library, all day every day. They had air conditioning and weren’t afraid to use it!

Good luck with your situation.

10

Arguing with a little old lady? Especially one who raised you and knows better? Good luck. Try to get some documents signed by God himself to use as evidence. (Note: this may or may not even help.) :wink:

I just don’t know what to say to that. But that is a sad state of affairs. Having dealt with a 90 something grandmother who can be quite selfish and un-empathetic, I feel your frustration.

I don’t know if this helps but:

Do you all have any idea what kind of amperage your AC unit draws? Shutting down one central unit and turning on several room units may not be energy efficient, depending on the draw of the individual units.

Also, you are right that the humidity plays a major roll in the work that the AC unit has to do. For instance: when I was on a research cruise this past May, we were running an external “Cold Van” on the main deck of the ship. (We had to keep live samples at the temperature at which we found them - 4C or 40F.) The AC unit on the Cold Van was rated to work up to 95F. It was in the high 80’s, and because of the humidity levels (90% relative), the AC unit started to fail, and the temperature inside the van started to rise. We were able to jury-rig something to combat the problem, but the point is that the eneregy required to remove that amount of humidity from the air was greater than even the heavy-duty AC unit could handle.

So, in short, opening the windows and letting humid hot air back into the house will (IMHO) make the AC unit have to work more. Keeping the AC on overnight would (to me) make sense from an energy stand point.

And lastly, I don’t know if this would fly - but you could consider actually blocking (e.g. with carboard and duct tape) the vents on the lower level. Force the air to go upstairs and work its way down.

11

Thanks for the advice. My son asked me (at three am) whether I thought he should climb up and vacumm the fan…I said, “not right now”! The thought of sending him up in the attic in this heat is daunting, but he’s going to try tonight.

Moving all those little baffles on the ducts in the basement hasn’t worked well, so the advice to block the vents with cardboard and duct tape is appealing. I’ve physically closed the vent flaps at the floor registers in several rooms (the kitchen one that she sits three inches from, and the bathroom one, which is six inches from the toilet when you’re sitting there, so she notices that one. I’ve also closed one of the living room vents (because no one goes in there much) and the sewing room (unless I’m actually in there) so that really only leaves the one in her room fully open. Even with the registers closed, there is plenty of cool air downstairs. There are only three registers upstairs…two ceiling ones, and one floor one that feeds both the boy’s bedroom and the bathroom.

If the air is left running long enough it gets cool upsatirs…at least tolerable…but it heats up again so quickly as soon as she shuts it off. I’m going to go into battle with the humidity fight, and see how that holds up.

12

Buy a second AC and put it upstairs.

Mom won’t be able to touch it because of the climb, the second floor gets cooled, and the load is taken off of the downstairs unit…

13

Is it just you and your son upstairs? Move into the living room at night. Get an air mattress for your son, and you sleep on the couch in the living room while he camps out on the floor. If your mother complains, tell her it is too hot to sleep up there and this is the only way you and your son will get any rest. Not getting enough sleep isn’t going to be good for your son when school starts.

14

Can you sneak a dehumidifer up there. It won’t cool the area, per se, but it will help dry it out and make it atleast feel cooler.

15

This might help draw mom’s attention to the problem you are having. Can you make it an either/or? Either she keeps the A/C at a reasonable temp, or you live in the living room?

16

I recommend early morning, it’s usually the coolest part of the day and the attic has had a chance to cool down a bit. Keep an eye on him - it’s easy to get overheated yourself up there. Is the attic properly vented? That will also help tremendously in reducing cooling costs, as will good insulation in the attic floor.

Oh, oh, oh, another thought - have him check the ducting while he’s up there. Is it possible that the vents for the upstairs are loose, thereby causing less air to the upstairs? Blocking the downstairs vents is also a good idea. It certainly sounds like something is causing a severe imbalance in the system.

I second the moving to the living room to sleep. It makes your point AND you get to sleep comfortably.

17

Can you wait until she’s asleep and turn it on at night? Close the vent in her room and close her bedroom door. Then try to make her think she forgot to turn it off.

18

Depending on humidity level this won’t work. If the thing stays on too long it starts blowing hot air (personal experience in a damp basement apartment on a humid evening). Nothing like a loud dehumidifier blowing hot air on a warm night to aid in lack of sleep.

19

It seems to me that if you have central air, and there’s a difference in temperature between upstairs and downstairs (when the A/C is on), then there’s a problem with the A/C and you need to get a repair person.

Aside from all the issues about who controls the temp, the window, etc., it sounds like if the upstairs were the same temp as downstairs, you’d be in much better shape than you are now.

20

Her way saves money, without a doubt. The A/C may “work harder” (i.e. run longer) the next morning, but the sum total is a lot less than if it ran all night.

Summer will be over soon - you’ll survive.