Need dog training advice

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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We got a puppy from a shelter at the beginning of January. He was just eight weeks old at the time. We were warned upfront that he was “very nippy”.

Incidentally, if you’re in New Jersey and are thinking about getting a pet, I highly recommend the Mt. Pleasant Animal Shelter in East Hanover. It was large and clean, with well cared for animals and happy looking staff. The interview process was so thorough and serious that we were afraid that we might not pass! Duncan came to us fixed, microchipped, and with up to date shots and a very complete medical history. He cost us $250, which had to have been less than half of his total vet bill.

Duncan is a complete sweetheart - loving and attentive. His mom was a “Red Heeler”; dad unknown, but based on coloring, coat, and body and leg length, the shelter was guessing that he’s part Dachshund. He’s also very smart, and alas, obstinate and bullheaded like the rest of us.

The cats are coping remarkably (scarily) well. They keep a little bit of distance unless he’s asleep, but they’re more curious then anything else. The puppy wants to bark and chase them of course, but the Meep hissed him off without much trouble. The boys ran at first but rapidly discovered that they’re safe as long as they’re off the ground (their normal preferred position anyway). I’m hoping that they’ll make friends soon (or at least learn tolerate each other), and we’ve seen some progress with Sam (the one in front in that picture).

Now the problem: Unfortunately “very nippy” actually means “very, very, very bitey”. He is still chewing everything that he can get his teeth on. Hands, feet, shoes, carpet, tissues and napkins, the food off of our plates, the sofa cushions, under the sofa, the tables, the window surrounds, his leash, my laptop… did I mention our faces? (Yeah, he’s gotten both of us a few times.)

We’ve tried teaching him what he’s allowed to chew on. (He has a plethora of toys.) We’ve tried shouting “No!” and clapping our hands. We’ve tried sour apple spray. We’ve tried exiling him to his crate. In the last couple of days, we’ve tried swatting his nose, which makes me feel guilty and doesn’t work any better than the other tactics. He understands clearly what he is and is not allowed to chew on, I think. But he’s determined to do as he likes anyway.

We’re prepared at this point to get professional help via a dog trainer. But I thought that I’d try here first for some advice. He’s growing like a weed, and it’s gone from “slightly painful” to “Damn it, I’m bleeding again!”. The above pictures are from when he first came home with us - he’s about twice that size now and has a lot of growing to go.

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Forgot to add - we’ve managed to housebreak him and teach him a few simple commands like “sit”. So he’s not untrainable, just very stubborn.

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I’ll give you my 2 cents - having successfully “broken” a biter/chewer. First, you have to realize that biting and chewing are both normal puppy behaviors. Change won’t be overnight - in some sense they have to grow out of it, but you can correct this behavior.

For biting, the real trick is to teach the puppy that while he CAN nip at you, it must be gently. Puppies have no real sense of what “gentle” is - so you have to train them. One good rule is NEVER to let them bite at clothes or hair because the puppy can bite as hard as he wants - and that’s bad.

Here’s what you do: Give the puppy your hand to bite on. He will take your hand in his mouth and you wait until the pressure begins to hurt. Gentle is ok - but hurting is bad. When it hurts, squeeze his bottom jaw with your thumb and forefinger firmly and say “No.” He will begin to associate biting too hard with pain/reprimand. Eventually, he will learn (as my puppy did) not to bite too hard. She still will mouth our hands occasionally now, but never in a painful way.

Some people recommend the walkaway if the puppy is getting too rough. Just walk away and ignore the puppy until he settles down / stops biting. My pup thought this was a great game - so we had more luck with the pinching / firm “no.”

For chewing - it’s tough - my puppy thought sour apple spray tasted GREAT! She eventually grew out of it though - we did a couple of things though: (1) crate training - so that someone was constantly watching her to reprimand her bad behavior, and (2) setting up roleplays to correct bad behavior. She liked to chew power cords, as an example, and I was scared she was going to electrocute herself. So I would put a power cord on the ground near her. When she bit it, I would scream NO! And then redirect her to a chewtoy.

Speaking of which, “Get your chewtoy!” is a great command to teach your dog. Once she learns it, you simply refuse to play with biting/nipping/etc. and say firmly “get your chewtoy.” My dog will run and hunt and find a chewtoy and bring it to you.

It just takes consistency and time.

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At that age he’s still teething and chewing is normal, if frustrating, so he’s likely to grow out of it. When he chews on something he’s not supposed to give as gruff of a NO as you can and take it away from him (or take him away from it). Stare him straight in the eyes (to reinforce your position as pack leader). Hitting will only delay his learning so try to refrain from that. If you must touch use your fingertips to simulate a bite on the shoulder or neck and hold until he submits; press firmly but not so much as to hurt.

When he is chewing one of his toys give him lots of attention and praise and petting so that he associates the chewable things with positive feedback. Don’t do a lot of handling or talking when he’s misbehaving because that’s attention and to a puppy all attention is good and he’ll learn he can get a lot by chewing the couch. If he only gets attention when he’s being good he’ll be good more often.

If he bites your hand or foot one thing to try is a high-pitched yelp. That’s how puppies teach each other when play has crossed the line.

A trainer is probably a good idea since they would be able to distinguish anything that’s more than normal puppy play and help you learn to understand how to react and, more importantly, how to interact with your pup. Most “dog training” is really “people training” since the people usually need to learn how to work with the dog in a way that makes sense to him.

On preview, Doctor Who has it: time and consistency.

By the way, cute puppy!

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Uhhh - I have never, ever heard of this. Not saying it doesn’t work, but having spent a fair number of years training various dogs, and going to various training schools, ALL of them say NEVER, EVER, EVER let the pooch bite or nip your hands. EVER.
Also, to the OP, try to stay as far away from hitting their nose as possible. Our pooch Grissom is a Rhodesian Ridgeback [linked picture is not ours, but a look-a-like]. Known to be very arrogant and have a I don’t care what you say attitude. Suffice to say, Ours does not have this attitude. My wife and I are routinely complememnted on how well he is trained. We always say back…“he does what he’s told because he wants to, and he knows where the “pack” stands with respect to who is alpha and where he fits in”

That said, your problem will be easily fixed when you assert yourself as the leader. Sounds sort of corny, but it is true. The behaviour you want must be learned and taken seriously. When he nips or bites gently take him by the scruff and put him on the ground on his back. Do not say a word. Stare into his eyes, until he stops squirming, and looks away. Let him go immediately. When he does it again, place him on his back again, by the scruff of the neck and repeat what was said above. It is minimally invasive and works like a charm.

This will assert you as the alpha and who ever else does this, and will allow you to teach him many more behaviours that you condone. Trust, it’s safe and effective.

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I have a dog who is a chewer, but much less so now that she’s five. When she was a puppy she chewed everything in sight, including plastic. At first I was really alarmed that she was swallowing the plastic that she was chewing. Happily, she wasn’t. I did buy her a LOT of puppy rawhide to chew. Have you tried that?

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BTW, if you try this, and he yelps, keep holding and do not let go…he’ll soon learn you mean business, and will stop quickly…You may even see good results within a day or two. As far as I can see, the results are permanent. I play with my pooch all the time, and when we starts to do something I do not like, I never hesitate in taking him down [all 115-lbs] and putting him on his back. HE HATES IT! and it only usually lasts a second to two. Just thinking about it now I realize I havene’t had to do in in quite some time. Over a year.

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Well, having spent quite a few years training dogs myself - I would say, wow. I’ve always heard of bite inhibition as a fairly standard approach to handling nipping. And I can verify (from my own experience) that it can work. Of course, every dog is different.

An alpha roll, eh?

I don’t want to drag this thread into GD territory - so I’ll just note that there’s quite a bit of debate about the effectiveness and impact of alpha rolls. It’s been touched on here at the Dope a few times. Also, check the references on that wikipedia link to get the pros and cons.

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One thing our trainer told us is that a crate should never be used as a form of punishment. The crate is the dog’s “safe place”…his cave…the place he feels safe and comfortable. If you use his crate as a “sending him to his room” kinda thing, he’ll start associating the crate with being in trouble. Then when you want to go somewhere and you need him to go in his crate, he won’t want to go.

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My husbands version of the aplha is to grab one of our beasties, whoever is misbehaving and not listening, by the scruff and force him down and not let go until he submits. Note he doesn’t force them onto their backs and submission is indicated by a relaxed state. He watches a ton of Dog Whisperer and has developed this technique which has worked so much better than yelling and butt smacking that sometimes occured in the past. We don’t condone hitting a dog on the schnozz, but our 15 year old Chow was a nightmare as a puppy and sometimes we just HAD to smack him on the rump to get his attention and yell at him to get him to submit. This was a unusual situation that never would have worked with our current two puppies who are very gentle if not docile (one is Aussie mix that can’t exactly be called calm!). Please note, we love animals and would never never abuse them in any way.

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Again, no disrespect at all! Like I said, opinions and techniques vary. This is just my experience and one that works well. There are hundreds of techniques that work, but for arrogant breeds like our dog, alpha training works very well. I have never hurt our pooch, ever, every encounter has been a learning one and I’m not trying to knock anyone I’m sure you understand.

::aside:: something I have wanted to ask for a while.
So which Dr. Who are you? Tom Baker?

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I just read the link to Alpha Roll.

I took it as Alpha Role. And I only used the actual rolling part when he was a puppy, as an adult, it was only rolling over by me for a few seconds… never holding him there.

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Hey Phlosphr - I didn’t mean to insinuate that your method was ineffective or even harmful - I apologize if my tone came across that way. I was trying my best to avoid setting off a large alpha roll debate.

I certainly think that the alpha ROLE is important in dog training. I mean it’s pretty clear - if your dog thinks you are the alpha, they listen. It makes training easy.

I mentioned the alpha roll (which is what your method sounds like to me) because it’s pretty much a flash point in dog training. It has been intensely debated and the subject of a lot of controversy in the past few years. Most dog trainers I know won’t use it, and will spend hours telling you why. If the OP chose to use it, I wanted her to be well-informed about its ups and downs.

That said, I’ll say that I’ve met a Ridgeback (like yours) that was alpha rolled and it was one of the most well-behaved creatures I’ve ever encountered. Ridgebacks are strong-willed and will dominate an owner easily if not properly handled. I’ve also seen dogwalkers use it at the dog park in a highly effective and highly appropriate fashion (large dog being waaaayyyy too aggressive with smaller dogs).

I personally wouldn’t use it on a dachsund-mix. Mainly because they have long fragile spines. Best to handle with care.

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Thank you, everyone, for the advice!

OK, no swatting (whew! I don’t like to hit so I’m glad that there’s a consensus for that).

PastAllReason - Oh my yes, he has many a rawhide to chew on. I was dazzled by the rawhide aisle in the pet store and went a little overboard.

We are already crate training him. No sending him there as punishment, check.

I talked over the rest of it with the hubby, and we’re going to try (in order):

  1. Establishing ourselves as the alpha, but not with the roll, considering all the controversy. We’re not experts and don’t want to accidentally hurt him even if it’s something that might work for him.

  2. Doctor Who’s hand biting training and role playing technique.

  3. If the above doesn’t decrease the biting, getting that professional help. Does anyone have any recommendations? Are those classes at PetSmart any good or should it be more personalized?

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Also check out nothing in life is free We did this with my dog, along with confining him in the bathroom (a safe place, where he couldn’t destroy anything) when he nipped as a puppy. Whatever method you choose, it might take a while for the dog to get it, depending how easily he learns, so you just have to be consistent.

As for classes, I’ve heard good and bad things about Petsmart. Some people have had a lot of luck there, but my first choice would be a private school. Good luck.

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Was this puppy raised with his litter-mates or other puppies in the shelter? One of my dogs never got to play with other puppies when she was little and so missed out on a lot of the crucial socialization (including bite inhibition.) When we first got her, she was very nippy-- to the point where she would actually bite on occasion.

My dog trainer suggested that whenever the puppy nipped or bit too roughly that we screech loudly and put the puppy in isolation for a few minutes.

What sort of toys do you have for the puppy? If you make his toys more appealing than the couch leg, he’ll chew on the toys. I like Booda Bones for teething puppoes. They’re made out of a highly-compacted cornstarch, and while they’re edible, they’re not going to make your puppy fat, but the puppy still feels like he’s “eating” something which some of them prefer to rubber toys. My pup chewed on them for hours.

I used a baby crib for my puppy while she was still to young to be trusted. I’d put a bunch of toys in there and let her play inside while I was busy and couldn’t keep an eye on her. I’d put the crib in the same room where I was working so she could see me and wouldn’t get anxious, but this way, I knew she wasn’t chewing on anything she shouldn’t.

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Both my dogs were nippers/chewers as puppies.

When they bit me too hard, I’d yelp (like another puppy would) and stop playing. I didn’t walk away or put the dog in a crate, but I did turn away and stop interacting with the puppy. The younger dog learned pretty quickly to be soft with his mouth. The older dog just couldn’t get it, so we have a “no mouth on owner” rule for her. (She has a deformity of the jaw that I think makes control over jaw force a bit difficult for her.) I did the same thing with her: when she’d put her mouth on me, I’d yelp and stop paying any sort of attention to her.

When they’d chew, I’d redirect them to a chew toy. In my case, I had to limit the amount of toys they had. They were smart enough to learn “chew on this one thing” but not “chew on any of these 20 things.”

There are some things I was never able to stop them from chewing on. Those are things that smell good to them (socks, shoes, underwear). I just have to keep them out of the dog’s reach. I tried everything, but the allure of chewing on a stinky sock was just too much.

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Boy howdy. Youngest dog is addicted to socks the way some people are addicted to crack. Unfortunately, he was abused before we got him and a loud “NO!” makes him piss himself in fear (literally), so it’s taking a loooong time to train him not to chew on them.

I made a big mistake when I was training Polaris. (Dog’s too smart for her own good.) Whenever I saw her with a sock, I would command her to drop it and when she did, I’d tell her she was a good girl. Somehow, her little doggy brain interpreted this that I wanted her to bring me socks. She steals them from the laundry basket or even from an open drawer and brings them to me, tail wagging to beat the band.

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A couple thoughts…

First, rawhide is no longer something that I give my dogs. Many dogs eat larger pieces and then throw them up or worse end up in surgery to have them pulled out of their belly. What I have found that seems to be even better than rawhides are bully sticks. They are more expensive, however last much longer than a rawhide. Dogs can’t pull them apart like rawhides so no risk for tummy problems. I have a very bitey puppy as well and the bully sticks work!

The Alpha Role is funny in our house. There is no question that I am the leader of the pack, however when you work with aussies sometimes that doesn’t mean all you would like it to. My red merle girl is very dominant, however if I start yelling at her she automatically hits the floor, shows me her belly and looks away. As soon as I stop yelling she goes back to doing whatever it was that got her yelled at in the first place. If I could read her brain I’m sure her thoughts would be “Oh shit, she caught me! I’ll just flop over and tell her that she is the boss and I am just the dumb dog, then she’ll get over it and I can finish what I was doing”.

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Rawhides can be an iffy proposition. You need to study your dog’s chewing style before you decide whether to give them to your dog. If the dog is a strong chewer who breaks off chunks, it’s not a good idea. If your dog is a “gnawer”, meaning that they work at a toy scraping off bits of it with their teeth, you might be okay with giving rawhides. (Taking them away, of course, once they’re small enough to swallow.)

Some dogs just can’t handle rawhide. You’ll know the first time you give them one because they get awful gas and sometimes diarrhea. They just can’t digest it properly. Sometimes, these kinds of dogs can better handle dried pig’s ears.

Nylabone makes flavored dog bones made of a highly-dense plastic. They’re very long-lasting. The ones made for puppies are softer than the ones made for adult dogs. Some dogs love them. (My eldest dog, though, would never chew on them.) Those keys on that page make a great toy for small dogs of any age.

I bought a Galileo for my two younger dogs and they love it.

These are the cornstarch Booda bones that I mentioned earlier. My dogs passionately love them.