Question for dog experts

Factual Questions
1

I just got bit by my puppy.

Background: Over a period of 16 years I raised two purebreed dogs. Both were great, lived a long, healthy life, no behavioral problems, etc. Both, as puppies, had to learn not to nip at people and both picked up on it pretty quickly. I did all of the training myself.

Three weeks ago we rescued a mutt from the pound. He was estimated to be 8 weeks old. Everything was fine until tonight. His nipping had been decreasing gradually, but tonight was a setback. Lots more nipping. Then we put him in his crate and I gave him a bone. It was a real meat bone, cooked and frozen. After a while I thought it might be too much food for him so I decided to take the bone away, put it back in the refrigerator and give him the rest tomorrow. I reached into the crate to take it away and he bit me! Actually drew a few drops of blood! I think my shock about what happened is mostly because nothing like this had ever happened with the first two dogs, so I just rigidly assumed that it would never happen with any dog I raised from puppyhood.

I know that it’s too early to tell how big a problem we have here. Of course the thing to do is see what happens tomorrow. Was this an isolated incident? Or is he turning bad? And if he is really bad this early, what, if anything, can we do?

I’d appreciate any thoughts or knowledge or experiences while we’re waiting to see what he does next. How bad a problem does this seem to be? Do good dogs ever do anything this bad? Was I extremely lucky with the first two?

2

Puppies bite. Especially if you try to yank food away from them. Don’t do that unless you know your dog very well. Three weeks is not long enough to develop the kind of relationship where you can take food away from a dog and not expect to piss him off. Especially if he’s still a puppy.

3

Different books by different experts don’t agree of whether solitary bites are necessarily indicative of a serious problem. Our australian sheperd bit us several times in his youth, but after that calmed down and has been docile for almost nine years. We did always punish him severely when he actually bit someone. With that said, I think that this is a special situation because you were trying to take food away from them. In wild packs dominance was partially established by which members of the pack could take food away from others. Consequently they have some sort of instinct that tells them to fight back against attempts at removing food.

4

Thanks for the perspective.

Update. I just took him out for a walk. No problems. About an hour had passed and he’d eaten all the meat off the bone and came out of the crate by himself, leaving the bone behind. He even sat in my lap for a minute and didn’t even nip.

5

I am not an expert, but you should not give dogs ‘real’ bones, because they may crack them and the splinters can cause damage. If you want to keep your dog busy for a while, get one of these and stuff it with cheese.

That should keep him busy, and quiet, for a long time, depending on the size of the dog.

6

I believe your problem is dominance, meaning that your puppy is trying to dominate you - right now this is a little problem, but it will become a big one if left unchecked. There was a thread on here a while ago (I can’t remember what the OP was so I have no idea how to search for it) - one of the resident dog experts said in this situation you have to let your puppy know that the bone is YOURS and you’re just letting him borrow it for a while. If he gets too posessive of it, take it away.

Darn I wish I could find that thread…

7

The dog bit you because it was ‘fear guarding’ its food. Does the puppy growl if you go near him while he’s eating? He’s trying to be top dog. You can get rid of that problem by starting to dominate your dog. Make the dog do a command any time you feed it. The dog should sit obediently while you put the food down. You can condition the behaviour out of the dog by making it step back from its food while eating. Slowly get closer to the dog, take a dominant position, and eventually the dog will give in and become more docile. I had to do that two dogs ago, when we had a male Border Collie. He would growl if you came near him while he was eating or chewing a bone. One day I tried to take something from him and he bit me. After that, we went through the whole routine with the fear guarding and eventually he calmed down and became a lovable dog.

8

Many puppies try this at least once; it’s natural. Just let him know that he can’t get away with it and you should be fine.

Dogs are individuals, like people. This has absolutely nothing to do with your dog’s mixed breed. And it’s a very, VERY rare dog that’s untrainably “bad.”

9

It’s perfectly natural for the dog to try and find its place in your pack.

While dogs have been bred to live with humans for thousands of years, they still have some residual pack instinct, it isn’t as strong as that found in wild dog species like the wolf or coyote, but it is there.

Once you have established yourself as top dog it is very rare to ever have that challenged again.

The hardest dog I have ever had to train was a mastiff. Not because of bad temperament or weak intelligence, this was a wonderfully behaved dog who was always naturally peaceful and a fairly intelligent dog. But it was an extremely lethargic dog who was very reluctant to stop sleeping unless it had to.

I had to really whip that dog into shape because it tended to get fat over the winter months and needed to be forced into exercise unlike some breeds.

10

BTW, you should never, ever feed your dog cooked bones! They can splinter dangerously, and the cooking process destroys a bunch of nutrients that dogs need in raw meat.

Chicken necks, wings or carcasses are great for all dogs, and they will loooooove you for them.

a

11

What my trainer for my dog had me do was…

For nipping: If you’re playing with the dog and its getting too nippy, it needs to calm down. Grab it by the collar or the nape of its neck, roll it on its back, and sit on the floor with your legs crossed around its hind legs and your arms firmly around its front legs. Now with its belly exposed, it is very vulnerable and you are very in charge. It may be rough going at first if the dog is strong and wiggly. But they calm down pretty quick. It lets the dog know “I’m the big dog here, we’re gonna chill and I’m not going to hurt you”

For taking away objects: Work diligently on a “drop” or “give” command, as well as “take”. Have the dog sit in front of you and either have yourself or someone else hold its collar so it can’t leave. Hand the dog the bone while saying “take”. Then take it away right away by saying “drop” or “give”. If the dog won’t give, yank the bone away (although in your case, I think you should avoid that due to baby teeth). If the dog growls when you move your hand towards the bone, clock them in the side of the head (that’s what our trainer said. Up to you if you want to follow that advice) and get mad. If the dog gives you the bone, go nuts with praise as if it’s the best thing ever. Repeat as necessary until the dog gets the game.

The point here is, like others have said, you need to establish dominance over this pup. The bone belongs to YOU and YOU gave it to him as a FAVOR and you can have it back any time you want. Same with nipping - you’re the big dog and when you don’t want to be nipped you shall not be nipped.

Your pup, since it was rescued, probably came from a place where it had to defend itself or go hungry. Give it time and discipline and you’ll really have a great pet.

Congratulations on you rnew dog, and good job on being so responsible to find out some answers :slight_smile:

12

I think my advice will be the opposite of many of these posts.

An 8 week old pup hasn’t had enough time with his littermates to learn his ‘manners’ - he doesn’t know how to play properly or to share … so you have to teach him … but with love, not with force or bullying.

If your dog is getting too nippy when you play with him, many experts now say to leave the room, or to just stop playing and turn around. You don’t need to “dominate” him - that is an old-school method of teaching that isn’t advocated by most trainers these days. The best punishment for a playful pup is to not have anyone to play with!

Never hit your dog (or clock it on the side of its head) - that will teach him to fear you because when you get close you cause him pain. There is no point to that.

Raw beef bones (often called soup bones at the butchers) are fine for dogs - if you like you can blanch them for 30 seconds - but raw is fine. It’s COOKED bones that are dangerous, as **abby ** pointed out. However, I have NEVER heard that chicken bones of any kind are safe for dogs - they splinter VERY easily.

A great book for puppy raising (**Plan B ** I know you’ve had dogs before, but this might give a new idea or two) is by the Monks of New Skeet - “The Art of Raising A Puppy”.

13

I have always heard that chicken bones of ANY kind are not acceptable to give to animals, because they are very prone to splinter. All cites I can find indicate the same thing – is there a cite out there that these are safe?

14

It’s going to be rare to find a vet who will recommend raw feeding but there are a lot of owners who have taken this route.

http://rawfeddogs.net/
http://www.rawlearning.com/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/

There’s an informative Yahoo list too: Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

These people feed their dogs whole chickens, whole turkeys, whole fish, pork necks, beef tails etc. The only no-no bones are the load-bearing ones such as leg bones from beef etc. Oh, and no cooked bones as they are prone to splintering.

From what I can recall from the chicken discussions, the bones are soft enough to chew for dogs and some cats. I have no first hand experience with the diet and just researched it for future purposes.

15

It’s a dominance issue, all right, and one you need to work out of him as quickly as possible. He’s just naturally a more dominant personality than the other dogs you had before, and that has nothing to do with him being a mutt versus a purebred. Some dogs are just naturally more aggressive than others. (I mean aggressive in the not-submissive sense, rather than the charge you and bite you sense. It’s a subtle but important difference that comes up a lot in talking about dog personality and training.)

If you ask fourteen trainers about this issue, they’ll agree that you need to establish dominance. Unfortunately, they’ll probably give you at least ten different suggestions for doing that. The rolling them over thing tends to work well in my experience, as does making them sit before they get something. With Dolly, she was so horribly pushy that we went through a period where she had to sit before she got anything. She wanted food, she had to sit first. She wanted petting, she had to sit first. She wanted her leash clipped on to go out, she had to sit first. She wanted her toys thrown for her, she had to sit first. Now she only has to sit before her dinner and getting her leash, because she still gets all jumpy and shovy and barky about those. Something else we did when she was really trying to be dominant was to grab her muzzle (not hard enough to be uncomfortable for her, but firmly enough that she knew we weren’t playing) and stare her down while telling her no. It works quite well with her and some other dogs I’ve known, but there are some dogs who would just take that as a signal to ramp up the aggression.

Dominance issues aside, you need to be able to safely take things out of your dog’s mouth at any time for any reason. If he’s gnawing on the last quilt your grandmother made before she died, or something he’s likely to choke on, or something toxic, you need to be able to get that away from him without getting nailed. ZipperJJ’s advice about the “take” and “give” commands is quite sound. (I personally have no problem with swatting one for certain completely unaccpetable behaviors like growling and snapping; if that’s the only time you strike them and you snuggle them all the rest of the time, they associate getting smacked with those behaviors, not with you getting close to them.)

16

Wow. My spazzy dog’s name is Dolly too. And we had to do all the stuff you said that you did with your Dolly (or basically what you agreed that you did with your Dolly too). :slight_smile:

17

Thanks for all the suggestions.

For the record, the reason I mentioned the purebreed vs. mutt thing had to do with the early life experiences. The first two came from reputable breeders and I’m sure they were held every day, etc. This dog was rescued from a pound and God knows what he went through the first eight weeks.

About the bones thing…I always thought that the biggest bones were the safest. We went to the butcher and got something that looked liked a femur from an elephant and they cut it into pieces. Each one is about 1 1/2" high and about 3" in diameter. (Charged us all of $2 for the whole thing!) But it sounds like what you all are saying is that I don’t have to worry about him swallowing the whole thing - I should worry about a piece breaking off…right?

I already tried the hold him on his back game. I think it went pretty well. I’ll keep you posted.

18

First, stop giving your dog bones! Second, the moment your dog bites or nips, grab him on the sides of his face and yell, “NO!” in a very authoritative voice. This will get his attention and “shock” him into changing his behavior. Then, turn him over on his back and hold him there while leaning over him and making intense eye contact. Hold him down until he looks away.

You shouldn’t be rough with the dog, just hold him down and make it clear that you are the “alpha” dog. Puppies want to know their place. You have to show them what is acceptable and what is not.

The key is being consistent. Don’t let it go because you are too tired or are busy with something else. There is a very small window of opportunity with puppies. At his age, he is ready to learn.

19

Yes, don’t confuse dominating the dog with abusing it. You can be gentle, but firm. Here’s the best suggestion: Take your dog to puppy kindergarten. Every dog owner should. There will be other dogs there, children, other adults, all in an environment where the puppy learns not to be afraid of them, but also not to dominate them. In short, the puppy will be socialized.

Puppies around this age go through ‘fear’ periods where they become afraid of things. If you don’t get them through those periods, they may never lose their fear. That may include fear of children, whcih could lead your dog to fear-biting a kid some day. Unsocialized dogs are a pain in the neck. They can’t be walked easily, they may bark uncontrollably at other dogs or people, etc.

Obedience training will also really help with the dominance issues you’re having. Put the dog in a fun situation - but one where it is clear who the master is. Obedience training does that.

Every dog should go through puppy kindergarten and basic obedience. The reward for a few months of fun work now will be ten to twenty years of a dog that is much more controllable and therefore more enjoyable to be with. That means you’ll be more willing to take it places, which will make the dog happier and less likely to develop bad behaviour. My dog goes everywhere she can with me. She rides in the car, goes on walks, goes on vacation with us. She can relieve herself on command, which makes long car trips a snap. We never have to worry about her messing in someone’s house, because we tell her to relieve herself before going over. As a result, a lot of our friends actually ask us to bring the dog along for the kids to play with.

Too many dogs get ignored in their formative years, develop obnoxious behaviour that makes the owners unwilling or scared to take them with them, and as a result the dogs get relegated to the back yard to live lonely lives getting into trouble because they have nothing else to do. Such dogs often wind up in the pound eventually.

Spend the time. Train your dog at a good obedience school. They’ll teach you how to handle problems like the ones you’re talking about, and they’ll teach your dog to be a good citizen. It’s fun, it’s not that expensive, and it pays huge dividends.

20

Another update: The exercise suggested by ZipperJJ and Marsie has already been a great success. Between my son and me we did it about ten times tonight - 20 to 30 seconds each time, and the nipping is almost zero.

Thanks again!