I , perhaps foolishly, made a bet, and as I would hate to lose it, but would honour the facts, I ask all the bible scholars here to help me out.
I bet that “killing babies is OK, and raping women is OK as well” according to the old testament.
So - can this be backed up at all? Is there verse to support this?
Many thanks to all the knowledgeable bible scholars out there.
Killing babies is something wished upon one’s enemies, and I don’t think that the Israelites who wrote those verses wanted anything to go OK for Babylon. And the Bible is likewise very clear that rape has consequences. The consequences might seem inappropriate to modern sensibilities, but they are definitely consequences.
“Thou shall not kill” - Exodus 20:13. No exception is made for babies.
There are certain passages, which no doubt someone will list soon, commanding mass killing during warfare in particular circumstances. But as far as giving law, the Bible is clearly against killing.
Also, concerning rape, the story of Amnon and Tamar in 2 Samuel 13: Amnon rapes Tamar, which is unequivocally depicted as bad. Tamar’s brother Absalom retaliates by killing Amnon.
Leviticus 20:2-5 clearly bans child sacrifice, as do numerous other passages.
why can’t you just say: yes (killing babies and raping women is OK in the OT)
There are times God authorizes such actions, well the baby killing part, even ripping pregnate woman open IIRC, don’t recall about rape, however that is for a specific time and place. The Bible does state that people sacrificed their children to Baal, a competing god who seemed to be cool with it, even desire it.
If the baby was doing something like witchcraft or committing adultery then it could be stoned, as could anyone doing such thing.
Some make the argument that since ‘life is in the breath’ that an in the womb child killed is not counted as murder (however it also says life is in the blood, that part they seem to ignore), however a lesser penalty is still mentioned for killing a child in the womb.
Where is this passage?
Exodus chapter 12 verse 29:
I find this particularly disturbing because God obviously enjoys doing it.
In Exodus chapter 11 verse 10, Pharaoh is ready to release everyone. But God ‘hardens Pharaoh’s heart’ so that this genocide can take place.
So, in other words, yes
How can a baby commit adultery?
Technically, the translation is “Thou shall not murder.” God accepted battlefield killing and capital punishment (like, for disobedient sons). If you’re fighting the enemies of God’s people (the Jews), I think God wouldn’t mind if you killed their babies. Outside of that, probably he’d frown on it.
I don’t think that the OT God would approve of rape. The general rule seems to be that sperm is meant to be only to be used for creating more Jews, and only with your wife, and anything outside of that is sinful. That said, I don’t think that it’s so much a matter that the writers of the OT would have cared too much from an ethical standpoint. The general feeling I got from most of the Laws, was that they had been written with the goal of making everything very simple to adjudicate in court. If you have children with another man’s wife, how does that child’s claim count against your wife’s children, when you die and they’re seeking your fortune? Well, you could come up with some complex rule set or just say, “Don’t do that.”, and make everything easier. So they chose to make it easier. Polygamy? Too difficult to deal with, so forbidden. Inheritence? Goes down the wife’s line since we know the kids are hers. Homosexuality? Doesn’t make new Jews, and we want those so we can keep expanding and taking over more land, so forbidden.
Rape has the potential to create offspring, so forbidden. Rape + murdering the victim is a loss of good Jewish sperm. Also forbidden.
Because that would be the opposite of the truth.
Because killing all the males and forcibly taking the females against their will isn’t “rape” in the Eyes of The Lord, right?
God is King of King of Kings and the king of the Jews, as king he 1: sets laws and civil penalties, so as rule of law murder is not OK. 2: As military commander, so in authorizing war actions yes killing is allowed.
And so we get the modern day issue which has been interpreted as the commandment is thou shall not murder, but killing and thus being a soldier is allowed.
Wouldn’t put it past some people to try to blame and execute the child for the act of pedophilia.
you have a funny definition of the word “true”
added to memory banks
Jeremiah 19:5
Also Molek seemed to be into it too:
Jeremiah 32:35
What would you call it then when they kill all the men and carry the women of into slavery?
It’s not even rape in a courtroom in the US either. It’s covered under different legal terms such as murder and kidnapping. Rape would require some forcing sexual contact against the will of the other, which you don’t describe here.
Killing all the men and carrying the women into slavery, is what I would call that.
Isn’t that (usually) what happens when a slave engages in sexual intercourse, ie, being forced
and what happens next?