Negotiating a traffic ticket

In My Humble Opinion
1

Last week on the way to work I was looking for a 7-11 that was on the way to work. It was very early, ~4AM. I was driving down this street, looking left and right. The light ahead of me was green. Unfortunately, when I turned my head to the side looking for the 7-11 the light changed over and I didn’t realized it until I was halfway through the intersection and saw the red light camera flash me :smack:

I am going to get a ticket for running a red light. I don’t have a problem with the fine, even a steep one- its the point on my driving record I have an issue with. See, I have a Commercial Driver’s license, which means I can’t go to traffic school to get points removed.

I was wondering if it would be feasible to negotiate the fine in court, by asking that they drop the point. I’d rather pay more money up front than god knows how much my insurance will go up, along with the burden of the point being on my record (I’ll have to report it to my employer :frowning: since I drive for a living). While I don’t think its feasible to get the whole ticket dropped, I am curious if its feasible to haggle the punishment down; in this case I only want the point waived and have no problem paying the fine itself.

2

What state are you in? Many states don’t count camera tickets as moving violations, they do not show up on your driving record if it is paid in time.

3

California. If you are correct, then awesome! But I’m not getting my hopes up.

The fine will be steep, between $500-$600. But as I’ve said, I’m more concerned with the damn point on my driving record :mad:

4

What the hell? I think the fine here is $70.

5

There was another thread on a ticket in CA a week or two ago and the fines there are extremely high. Might have to do with the state being bankrupt. :slight_smile:

6

I tried searching for information on whether California assesses a point on the license for a photo-enforced ticket. It appears that California does assess a point on the license for a photo-enforced red light violation.

Relevant links:

California Vehicle Code 21453 (red light violation)
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21453.htm

You will probably be cited under Section 21453(a).

21453 is an Infraction:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/lov/lovd11.htm

21453 is a 1 point count violation:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/vioptct.htm

“21453, 21453a, 21453b, 21453c - Illegal movement/red/light/arrow”

However, if you were driving a commercial vehicle at the time of the violation, then:

“Although a Class A or B driver without a special certificate may be allowed 2 additional points, a violation received in a commercial vehicle carries 1 1/2 times the point count normally assessed (12810.5b VC).”

It stays on record for 3 years.

I couldn’t find anywhere in the California Vehicle Code where they differentiate between point counts for an “automatic enforcement” ticket and an officer enforced ticket.

Additionally, the following sites seem to support that an automatic enforcement (photo-enforced) ticket carries a point in California:

http://www.citrusheights.net/docs/1014271792008redlight_information.pdf
(.pdf)

“A driver caught running a red light is assessed a negative point to his or her driving record and a minimum fine of $381.00; however, certain circumstances could increase this amount on an individual basis.”

Note that the $381 figure may or may not be specific to this county. Your exact fine may differ.

And this according to the Napa, CA Red Light Photo Enforcement FAQ:
http://74.205.120.199/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=851&Itemid=720

"What is the penalty for running a red light?

The penalty for a convicted red light violation is one point on your driving record and you will have to pay a fine."

There are some options to fight your ticket. My personal advice would be to request a “Trial by written declaration”. If the prosecution does not mail in a response to your filing, the ticket is dismissed by default. If you lose by written declaration, you still retain all your rights, including the right to an in-person trial. I have known people who have used this method to successfully contest their traffic tickets. It works sometimes, and doesn’t work other times.

Details here:
http://www.ticketassassin.com/fight.html

Additional reading:

http://www.redlightcameratickets.com/red-light-cam-controversy.htm

http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/

http://www.redlightcameraticket.com/

You don’t need to buy any of the stuff in the above links (and some of the info may be hyped to make you buy their stuff), but just learn how to file a trial by written declaration, or identify other ways in which you can fight your ticket, e.g. driver not visible in picture.

Once you receive your citation in the mail, you will have more info on how to proceed.

I am not a lawyer. The above is just my interpretation of the traffic laws, and may or may not be accurate.

7

Oh, and to answer your actual question regarding negotiating the ticket: You might be able to negotiate the amount of the fine if you go to court and accept a plea bargain, but I’m not sure if the 1-point count is negotiable as it is explicitly defined in the California Vehicle Code.

Also, judges will usually offer a plea bargain to save cost/time/effort required to go to trial. They might be less inclined to offer a plea bargain if the evidence is clear, e.g. photo/video evidence.

8

Supposedly, if they don’t have a clear picture of your face, they can’t definitively prove that you were driving, and so you can tell them that you have no idea what they’re talking about. Can anyone verify this?

9

That’s my understanding, as well. These camera tickets are revenue-raisers. Unless they can prove it was you, you will not get a point. Check with a lawyer.

I once beat a ticket even though I was clearly guilty. They installed a new “No Left Turn Between X o’clock and X o’clock” sign. It was installed at the end of the left turn lane (you’re already in it before you see the sign). It was during rush hour, which made it impossible to get back into the flow of traffic. The cop pulled at least 20 people over. When I got to court, everyone was taking their lumps and paying the fine. I approached the bench and explained the situation, and he dropped the charges! Woohoo for me! Anyway, the point is, it can’t hurt to try to get it dropped.

10

Cool, thanks for the info!

I also discussed the matter with my local shop steward (who, in a driving-related job, often help Union brothers/sisters fight traffic tickets :smiley: ) and he assured me it wouldn’t adversely affect my employment there, so if I was found guilty and got fined/etc they’d have to have it on file along with all the other DMV-related info.

11

But they’ll have a clear picture of your car and your car’s license plate. Ultimately you are responsible for the driving that happens in your car, regardless of who is at the wheel. That’s why these show up as non-moving violations more often than not. The issue isn’t that YOU ran the red light, but that your CAR did.

12

And I am talking about California law, where it may be very likely different. I would welcome a cite, but it is a common factoid there.

13

In my court the prosecutor almost never has a problem making a plea bargain to a lesser charge. Usually to a no point violation. Unfortunately for the motoring public the state added a mandatory surcharge to plea bargains. Strictly a money maker for the state, it doesn’t go to the town or police department. It is the same in most courts I’ve heard of but I can’t guarantee it would be that way for you.

14

I drive wearing Groucho Marx glasses

15

Go to your initial appearance and plead not guilty. They will assign you a pre-trial conference hearing date. Before that hearing, you’ll meet with the prosecutor/employee of the company that runs the cameras.

Tell him/her your situation and explain that you’re willing to plead to a lesser, no point charge if s/he doesn’t offer you one right off the bat.

The prosecutor will notify the judge you want to change your plea, the judge will ask if that’s correct and that you understand all that’s involved. You say yes, the judge quickly reviews the evidence to see if you would likely have been found guilty if the case went to trial. If the judge figures you’d have been found guilty, you get the lower charge, pay your fine and go about your business.

There may be some differences in the above from state to state, but that’s pretty much the standard operating procedure. Good luck.