Just got my ticket in the mail-from the nice folks in Suffolk County, NY (Long Island). They claim I failed to stop at a stop sign-I have a remote camera picture. At any rate, I have had no moving violations in over 12 years-is it worth it to go to court and try for a dismissal?
the only thing is, its a 245 mile drive for me!
You likely won’t get it. The best you can hope for is a reduction of fine if you show up. Your call as to whether it’s worth the time and gas money on that chance.
Check online or call and see if it’s a “No Report” type of offense. I have no idea of NY, but in OK, certain basic moving violations are not reported to Ins. (no info on their website, but I was verbally told this at counter just last week when I went to sign up for traffic school. Didn’t qualify to sign up because of No Report status).
So, I just ponied up the dough. Not worth the hassle, esp if not affecting my ins rates, ya know?
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Zero chances.
I can only tell you for certain how things are in NJ. No guarantee they are the same there but probably very similar. Here red light camera tickets have no points. There is nothing to reduce it down to. Its a minor fine and thats it. On our tickets there is a link to the website where you can few the footage of your violation. Watch it. If you are guilty just pay it and move on.
So crying and showing some cleavage won’t work, huh?
I wouldn’t drive for it. If there’s a “contest by mail” option, hey, give it a chance, because what’s the worst that could happen (I actually got my dad off a red light violation this way), but if it was 245 mile drive, I’d pony up if that option was available and I was clearly guilty.
A lot of those who come to my court to contest these tickets don’t read them carefully. They see the still photo and their brake lights on and they decide to fight it. They miss the link to the video. Before going into the court they are given a chance to preview the video. Most then meekly go to the counter to pay after that.
Oh, yes, make sure to check the video. Like I said, if there’s a “contest by mail” option that has no downside to it (as there is in Illinois), give it a shot. My father clearly ran a red and I somehow (much to my shock) got him off of it with a letter after telling him he ran the red and was guilty, and there was no way in hell he was going to get off. So who knows. If you have any plausible defense after looking at the video, it can’t hurt to try. No way is it worth driving 245 miles, IMHO.
“Pull your pants up, son, and face me when I’m talking to you.”
FYI, here in Cincinnati, one of our smaller municipalities (Elmwood Place) was forced to abandon their speed cameras after a county judge ruled that it violated the drivers’ due process.
So that may be your only hope.
Which is why red light camera tickets are considered a civil penalty not criminal/traffic. The tickets are the responsibility of the owner like with a parking ticket. But there are no points and nothing on your driving record.
What happens if you do nothing? This is something that varies a lot between jurisdictions so you should be very careful, but when my city in Ohio had cameras, there was no penalty for just throwing the ticket out and doing nothing. The fine print of the “ticket” made it clear that it was just a notice that the city considered you civilly liable for $X, and that if you didn’t voluntarily settle with them by paying that amount or show up at their “hearing,” the city might very well sue you for $1.25X. There was no means whatsoever for your failure to pay the “ticket” resulting in an arrest warrant or a license suspension, just a possible lawsuit for 25% more.
But IANAL in any sense, and for all I know, Suffolk County will suspend your license, throw you in jail, and charge you $10,000 in fines.
I know for certain that here you will get a warrant for failing to appear.
Where I live the fines are minimal, there are no points, nothing on your record.
I’d just pay it and move on.
You’d probably spend more in gas money plus waste an entire day.
Interesting. The current state of the law in Florida is that camera tickets are virtually unenforceable.
A stop sign, or a stop light?
Here in Wisconsin red light cameras and photo radar are illegal by statute. I’m surprised they’ve lasted as long as they have in other states. There are a lot of variables and things that can go wrong with radar when it’s being manned by a police officer. To nail people with an unmanned one is outrageous, IMHO.
Here’s a related question, also from NJ.
A few weeks ago I drove past an ambulance and police car that were stopped on the side of the road. The ambulance was about halfway into the right lane and half in the service lane, at about a 30 degree angle to the road. Traffic was passing them. I pulled into the left lane and passed with other traffic - I actually had to slow down a bit to allow another car in the left lane to pull ahead of me.
The ambulance had its lights on (so did the cop), but did not have a siren on.
As I passed the ambulance it began to move out, slowly. Shortly thereafter, I got pulled over by the cop.
I began to explain that I had no idea that the ambulance intended to move out, but the cop - who seemed to be in a bad mood generally - cut me off and said if you see an emergency vehicle you need to slow down and assess the situation more carefully.
In any event, what are my odds if I show up in court with this story? My position is that based on the ambulance being stationary and with no siren, I did not expect the ambulance to move into traffic - and based on the position of the ambulance, even if it was going to move into the road, I expected it would move in the direction of traffic in the right lane, which I had left clear. So I wouldn’t think it would qualify as “failure to yield”.
But the more important question is what a judge would think. And also, if the cop tailors his story to make me seem more guilty.
So how would you rate the odds?
I’m a muni court magistrate and handle traffic cases all the time.
In Ohio, you’re better off showing up in court if you don’t agree you’re guilty. If you fail to appear and don’t pay by mail, a bench warrant will issue, and you might find yourself being arrested the next time you have the pleasure of conversing with a police officer. The timing of that might be quite inconvenient for you.
If you appear for trial, and the officer doesn’t, for a minor misdemeanor (such as running a red light or stop sign) in our court, the case is dismissed. If you and the officer both appear and your driving record isn’t half bad, or if you’re persuasive about the circumstances of the case, the prosecutor might dismiss the complaint or, more likely, offer you a plea agreement that would avoid points or a large or mandatory fine.
If your case goes to trial, you choose not to testify and the court doesn’t believe the officer, you’ll be found not guilty. If you choose to testify and make a persuasive argument, you might be found not guilty or get a break on the fine.
Some people just don’t think it’s worth showing up in court to fight a ticket. I think it very often is.
I can’t speak for the laws where you are, but here in San Diego, CA, they have deactivated all the red light cameras, which now have bags over them (but curiously have not been removed despite that happening more than six months ago.
Even before that, we had something here called ‘trial by declaration’ where you send in the money for the fine, and send in a written description defense because you are too far away to fight it. This is a particularly effective way to fight a ticket a cop gives you, because he/she then has to provide a written defense to the judge as well and cops HATE having to do that. I have gotten a number of friends out of tickets this way in exchange for lunch.
I’ve honestly never tried to get out of a red light camera ticket, but I would try any of the following:
- Are you visible in the picture? If not, you could claim you’re not the driver. (a lie)
- You could say there was some (out of frame) hazard you were avaoiding that required you to run the light (a lie)
- You could also question the calibration of the light/camera - here in San Diego a city engineer has to certify the street where the tickets are given for the speed every five years. With an ever expanding city, and a small pool of city engineers, at least 50% of the streets are out of compliance at any given time. You can call the city engineer’s office and ask if the street/intersection was in compliance if it works that way where you are. (actually this is not a lie)
- I’m not sure about mentioning the due process thing, but it’s up to you. The problem with the camera is that you are being accused after the fact and are not shown the equipment or given any information at the time of the infraction. By comparison, a cop will show you your speed on his/her radar gun and will explain how it works on the spot. They will also get your signature on the ticket confirming that you understand the accusation and it is a promise on your part to address it. No signature on the red light ticket arguably provides a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ approach to law enforcement.
No idea. Only have your version. And I don’t know what you are being cited for. I can think of a couple of different statutes that it could possibly be off the top of my head. I’m sure your chances of a plea bargain are excellent. Acquittal is something else.
Again I can only speak with authority about NJ but NY is similar in many cases. Your advice pretty much stinks from top to bottom.
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Its a civil penalty. Just like a parking ticket, the ticket is issued to the owner not the driver. Since it has no effect on driving records or points the judge does not want to hear that argument.
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The still picture on the ticket shows a very small portion of the roadway. The cameras themselves cover the entire intersection. From several angles.
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You can question that but chances are it is up to date. There was a big kerfluffle in state not long ago. They know very well what they need to be in compliance.
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What does a signature have to do with anything? 15 years in law enforcement. My state has never required the driver to sign anything. A signature or lack of one means nothing.
Oh and those parenthetical lies? That’s called perjury. A much more serious matter than a small fine.