Nero Wolfe-Archie Meets Nero Wolfe, Robert Golsborough.

The Goldsborough novels are not the quality of Rex Stout, but I have enjoyed reading them, since there are no ore Stout books.
I just received an e-book, Archie Meets Nero Wolfe.
Goldsborough makes much of Archie’s memory, being able to remember completely anything he has heard or read, but when given Wolfe’s phone number, he “scribbled it down”. I believe that is an example of how Goldsborough isn’t as good as Stout with the characters.

I’ve never had any desire to read the Gosborough books, but Archie made it clear in the Stout books that Wolfe trained him to remember conversations verbatim. He didn’t have that ability when they first met.

Stout definitely learned his craft, the early books didn’t have the sharp, well-defined characterizations that the later ones did. It didn’t take LONG for Stout to get the characters down, but Fer-de-lance, IIRC, is kinda different from subsequent stories.

Also, his first novel, “Under the Andes” which I think you can get for free on Kindle, and some of his pulp magazine short stories shows that Stout had to learn his craft prior to hitting his stride with Archie and Nero.

So, Goldsboro might get better farther down the road. That said, I’ve no interest in Nero Wolfe-oid novels by a Rex Stout-ish writer. I’ll just reread a classic.

Under the Andes* is pretty standard pulp fiction. Not bad, but as you say, certainly not up to Stout’s Wolfe novels. But then, what did he have to work with? :slight_smile:

Ow! I did not recall that. Do you remember which book? I don’t have them all, and must go to the library.

I’ve read all the older Goldsborough Nero Wolfe novels. He ended with a story about an author who continued someone else’s series. It was obviously a farewell.

This is the first of a second series of Wolfe novels, which he started a couple of years ago. My wife picked this one up for me. It’s OK, but not great. Goldsborough knows his Nero Wolfe thoroughly, and ties in to several of Stout’s stories. He’s written a couple of others afdter this one, but I haven’t tracked them down --I’ve never seen them in bookstores or used bookstores (although I still see the Stout books, and books from Goldsbotough’s first set of Wolfe novels).

Some of my friends at the library where I worked were Nero Wolfe readers, and generally liked the Goldborough books.

I’ve never been able to stomach these pastiches. They’re just off in a way that creeps me out… it’s like the Uncanny Valley of books.

The thought that Goldsborough might “get better down the road” is rather generous. The dude’s been running the Acme RexStoutifier Factory for more than 25 years. That’s two decades to improve, despite having 70+ novels/stories to use as a guidepost! And he still can’t come close to faking either Wolfe’s eloquent but unpretentious phrasing, or Archie’s sharp, breezy wit.

Most of all, damn it, what really grinds my gears is that Stout’s estate went against Stout’s own wishes. He didn’t want Wolfe to continue after he was gone with another author. Let them roll their own, quote/unquote, to use a phrase Wolfe tried to drum out of Archie’s vocabulary (successfully).

Robert Goldsborough? I never liked “Honey” and isn’t he a kiddy diddler? No wonder he writes lousy novels. :wink:

You people almost have me reading some Rex Stout. It’s gotta be more fun than the history I’ve been reading.

Oh, yes! If you aren’t familiar with Nero and Archie, you HAVE to read them. The best armchair detective ever.

Make sure you’re not a fan of Perry Mason, though.
Not that there’s any connection between the two. It’s just that reading Stout makes [del]Gardner seem[/del] one notice how vapid and amateurish Gardner is. In much the same way that reading Marsh reveals similar characteristics in Christie.

Was Stout losing it at the last? I don’t remember the book where Wolfe messes with the FBI.

I don’t know for sure, but The Doorbell Rang hardly seems like loony conspiracy theory considering what Hoover was doing with the FBI in the era it was published. They had Stout on the “Not To Contact” list even before TDR because of his involvement with the ACLU. Hoover thought he was a communist or a sympathizer.

And frankly, I have no disbelief on the idea that Wolfe would not be able to countenance the stuff Hoover was up to.

He still had it stylistically. “Death of A Doxy” written immediately after “The Doorbell Rang” is one of his best.

Gardner’s specialty wasn’t really character building. He had a clever way with building plot out of technicalities, chiefly in the law. They’re fun to read. As a modern reader I think it’s just dumb that apparently Della Street can’t be both Perry’s wife and his assistant at work. But he kept up that premise for decades.

Stout could set the eyes a-rolling with the premise that absolutely everybody who got caught as a murderer had to show up to Wolfe’s house first. But he managed to pull off marrying the hard-boiled style of mystery with the armchair detective. Wolfe is a credible intellectual, which not every writer can manage. His relationship with Archie is complex, and sometimes I swear it’s like they’re lovers the way they fight. But that’s presumably because in our modern culture we just can’t conceive of deep homosocial connections that are not homosexual, though in a previous era they could.

I have not even heard of these Robert Golsborough books. What is the timeline? Because like everyone else of the era, including the ostensibly non-genre fiction of P. G. Wodehouse, the stories kept having to be told in subsequent decades even as the characters aged not a bit. And then of course at some point in the process you have to explain why your characters weren’t off fighting WWII. But if you’re picking up a franchise, you can just re-retro everything. The TV show they had for a while seemed to try to have all eras of the novels take place at once. How do the post-Stout novels handle this?

Didn’t Stout decide that Wolfe was perpetually 50 and Archie 30?

The Doorbell Rang is in a three-way tie for my favorite Wolfe/Archie book. Despite the J. Edgar Hoover references, the campaign Wolfe engages on his client’s behalf–and because he’s egotistical enough to want to show Hoover who’s boss :D–concerns privacy and governmental reach issues that are very relevant today.

In TDL, the pair certainly pull one of their three greatest stunts, the culmination of which is a sheer delight to read and get vicarious, wicked glee when we see the result. Great book for Lt. Cramer fans, too. So as you can guess from my enthusiasm, I don’t think there’s any hint of dwindling talent or mental status in the least.

FWIW, my other two favorites are Prisoner’s Base, a fantastic if somewhat darker outing for Archie in particular, and In the Best Families, which contains the second of the three wild but ingenious schemes from Wolfe. Also a terrific Archie* showcase.

(The other crazy plan is in The Black Mountain, probably Stout’s biggest departure from the usual “formula,” though the books never seem very formulaic to me. I love this book as well for all we learn about Wolfe, and it’s up in my top ten.)

I do think his final book, A Family Affair, shows some weakness, but bear in mind Stout was IIRC 88 and ill when he wrote it, and he knew it would be his last. It’s still a fitting send-off. If I had to choose my least favorite, it’d be Death of a Dude. And it’s still re-readable.

That’s actually the amazing thing about this series. The books are extremely comfortable and enjoyable to read multiple times, due to the humor and characterization of the main duo and the ancillary recurring characters.

Contrast this to Agatha Christie, where the Puzzle is All. Once you know the solution, you might want to re-read Christie to see how the clues were there all the time, but generally they’re not books I’ve returned to. Notable exception being Murder on the Orient Express.

As an aside, I have to take umbrage at the notion that Christie is amateurish. Are her characters paper-thin, mere chess pieces with stock personalities that she moves around the board? Sure. But that’s not the point of her tales. They’re challenges, not character studies. She pretty much transformed the mystery novel into a game of wits between writer and reader.

While other authors have the mystery-solving require some obscure clue denied to the reader (Stout was notorious for this, but IMHO he gets away with it by having Archie just as frustrated as the readers by Wolfe’s sneakiness), a significant number of Christie’s mysteries are completely solvable by the reader… if you’re sharp enough. I admire the hell out of that choice. It’s way harder to astound an audience when you show them all your cards–and it makes the final reveal much more enjoyable to me, IMHO, if I had a fair shot at figuring it out.

(She influenced me to the point that, as a writer whose work usually delves into secrets and mysteries, I always ensure that the solution is hidden in plain sight. Even if the mystery is simply who’s sleeping with whom, or someone’s secret identity, I want people to be able to read back and think, “OMG, of course, how did I miss that?!”)

Anyway, getting back to Wolfe. Some may disagree, but I know I am in good company when I opine that Archie is pretty much the raison d’etre for the series’ success. There are many armchair geniuses and eccentric detectives. Wolfe isn’t terribly far removed from Mycroft Holmes, for example. But there’s only one Archie Goodwin to tell Wolfe’s stories. Unlike Watson or Hastings or most other sidekicks–heck I’m not even sure it’s fair to call Archie a sidekick–Archie is an excellent detective in his own right, despite his self-deprecation in some of the earlier books.

Stout made Archie’s narrative voice absolutely essential, as he relates their adventures with his unique blend of wit, snark, bluntness (especially early on) and–despite the many bickering interchanges with Wolfe–admiration that never comes close to fawning. In return, it’s clear that Wolfe, who also mocks Archie at times, also knows Archie’s worth.

The books also work because they don’t give Wolfe easy, stupid opponents. Many private eye tales have the leads showing up the police, who are depicted as either awed by the genius or completely backward and stupid, and almost always hostile.

Compare that with the (somewhat grudging) respect that Wolfe/Archie show Lt. Cramer and Sgt. Purley Stebbens, and vice versa. Yes, there’s Rowcliff, who’s a thug, but generally even when Wolfe butts heads with the cops, the police aren’t depicted as buffoons. (District Attorneys, OTOH, often get much worse treatment. Wolfe has very little time for lawyers of any kind, except his own.)

Okay, essay over. Jesus, if only I knew as much about current events as I do about the intricacies of life in a brownstone on West 35th Street.

I’ve only read one Goldsborough Wolfe novel, but IIRC, probably late 80s/early 90s. Archie is now keeping the orchid breeding records on a computer! (Which seems like such a blasphemy that I never actually went looking for any other of Goldsborough’s continuations.)