new arrival any day...circumcision or not

In My Humble Opinion
1

If this has been covered in another thread, my apologies.
I am quite new here and have not seen anything about it.

So nearly anyday now, my lovely wife will be giving birth and although we do not know yet the sex of the child, some debates have been going on for some time about how to best raise the new offspring. Some matters are easy. Breastfeeding is a given (my wife’s words of course, and which I totally support).

But then there are some other issues that are less easy to decide. One important one is circumcision. We’ve read many opinions on the matter and yet few give good advice.

My wife says ‘Like father, like son’. I am circumsized (sp?). But,…I hate to cut off what nature created.

Of interest, IMHO, is at least one article that discusses the merits of a bald head v. the natural sheaf in terms of his chances of receiving oral sex, or for that matter, any type of sex, based on the look, feel, taste and smell of his, ah…organ.

So I turn to you dopers. Men, what do you think? Ladies, would it indeed put you off? I would hate have my son (!) having reduced chances to receive such a wonderful gift from a woman.

Or perhaps the newborn will be female, and I’ll have a whole different set of issues to consider.

2

Well, I should state at the outset that I’m against it.
A future age will look back at the practice as cruel
and inhumane. However, it was done to me.

Regarding oral sex, my feeling is that yes, some women
won’t because of not being circumsized; however, when
he finds one who will, he’s found someone who really
enjoys it.

I’ve been with a few women who do it out of a sense
of obligation, and that’s not worth it, IMO.

3

I haven’t seen too many discussions on this that didn’t get all heated and obnoxious. I belong to an e-mail list of moms who were all due at the same time, and this was a fierce debate while we were expecting. Two years later, with our cut and uncut boys toddling around, it’s such a non-issue it’s hilarious in retrospect.

The corollary I’ve heard to “like father, like son” is “He shouldn’t look different in the locker room.” Given that the rate of circumcision is dropping (I am not sure to what degree) I think this is less of an issue. There probably WILL be other boys with uncut units if you choose to go that route.

There’s an argument for circumcision that relates to rates of cancer and urinary tract infections. Statistically it’s riskier to not circumcise, but it’s the difference between “infinitessimal” and “infinitessimal times two.”

Pain is an issue, the trauma that this causes a newborn. But they use topical anaesthetic now (sometimes more), so this is not as big a deal as it once was. Probably still SOME pain during the procedure, and definitely some after. But our son was easily comforted afterwards.

Some people think it’s cruel to do a procedure that causes pain when it is mainly just cosmetic. But I consider circumcision a cultural choice (not to mention a RELIGIOUS one for some folks) that warrants some respect. I don’t bitch at people for piercing their baby girl’s ears, for that same reason.

I have heard conflicting information on which is better for sexual pleasure later in life.

We circumcised and I don’t feel guilty about it. As luck would have it, it healed wrong and the poor kid is probably going to have to have the tallywacker recut when he is a little older! Ouch! Sorry kid! But I don’t regret it, I’d do it again if we had another boy. But that was just us, our decision.

P.S. Good for you for supporting the breastfeeding thing. It can be hard, and support from the baby’s father is actually a huge factor in getting through the tough times.

4

When our son was born, we had the same debate. Hubby was horrified at the thought of someone taking a scalpel to the baby’s package, but that may have been his own paranoia talking.

There don’t seem to be anymore compelling health reasons existing nowadays, as long as said member is kept clean (this can be a real probelm with young kids though).

Our concern was more about the little guy’s feelings (the son, not the johnson). It is bad enough that guys always wonder if it’s the right size, etc. I didn’t want my kid to be in gym class, or changing with Dad, or whatever, and think “why am I different?” Does he really need a reason to be insecure about his penis? I also wouldn’t want him teased for being different.

Anyway, the circumcision went beautifully, he actually fell asleep halfway through. The doctor did a very nice job, it is a lovely little member.

My two cents, probably doesn’t help much, but it’s what we decided and some of why.

Good luck! And have a great birth!!!

5

Oh Cranky, just read your post! So sorry about little Johnny’s johnny! But have a friend who had a similar problem, except it was a birth defect they should have checked for before the snip. They ended up not completely finishing the job until he was 5+ years old, but no significant trauma memory, and everything works fine!

6

Congrats on the upcoming BOJ.

We just went through this same dilemma. Ended up with a girl, so we didn’t have to choose. However, had it been a boy, we were not going to get it done.

Main reason - it’s unneccessary surgery w/o pain killers.

It looks like there used to be a hygenic advantage to getting it done, but with a little training and common sense that no longer applies. As far as other studies showing a reduced rate of penile cancer in clipped men, let’s just say the evidence is underwhelming.

If there is a religious motive, hey that’s fine.

We’ve also heard the like-father-like-son reason. Friends of ours got their son trimmed 'cause they didn’t want junior to be traumatized when he saw dad au naturel. I don’t buy it. Why should your wee one have to suffer (pun intended) just so you can avoid an uncomfortable question.

As far as it reducing your chances of getting a little oral action, I think that by the time she has her head down there, she’s pretty much decided. Keep it clean and it should never be an issue.

Enjoy the little one, and remember, a breastfeeding mother makes dad’s life a lot easier. Just keep saying “Gee honey, I wish I could share in that special bonding experience.” :smiley:

pcubed

7

I left the final decision up to my husband and we decided to do it for the following reasons, roughly in order:

  1. There are some medical benefits (lower risk of UTIs, lower risk of STD’s, lower risk of penile cancer).
  2. Everyone we talked to knew someone who was not circumcised in infancy and had to have it done later in childhood or in adulthood–very unpleasant.
  3. Aesthetic considerations.
8

I was born Jewish, so of course I’m cut, and I’m proud to say that my grandfather fainted at my bris.

But, there’s a great article at Salon.com about your son’s future sexual exploits to consider.

9

I hope you realize this practice is only common in the USA and very rare in Europe. I see no reason to do it and, if you care for your kid, why not wait and let him decide when he is older? He can always do it, but he cannot undo it.

10

From a woman’s perspective on her uncircumcised husband…
I have to say I much prefer an uncircumcised man. As an American I had only ever been with circumcised men before I met my British husband, and to be honest I was a little nervous about it – basically because I had no idea what an uncircumcised penis was like. But there was no need for me to feel strange about it, and apart from being a bit curious at first, I soon got used to it and decided I was lucky to have found an uncircumcised man.

"Of interest, IMHO, is at least one article that discusses the merits of a bald head v. the natural sheaf in terms of his chances of receiving oral sex, or for that matter, any type of sex, based on the look, feel, taste and smell of his, ah…organ. "

I can assure you that all of that is absolutely fine. (And for me, at least, better – as I said I prefer my husband’s to any previous lovers’.) Also, an erect uncircumcised penis with the foreskin pulled back looks just like a circumcised one.

Needless to say we will leave any future sons’ foreskins intact regardless of whether we live in the UK or the States.

11

For some reason I can’t get in to edit my last message, but I also wanted to add that my American best friend who recently had her first experience with an uncircumcised man (also European, Bulgarian this time) readily agreed with me. Friends we talked to about this were a bit envious! :slight_smile:

12

Hey, I’m in the same boat as Nimue. There’s no debate about this between my fiance and I. My fiance is not cut, and we don’t want to cause unnecessary pain and trauma to our baby boy.

Aesthetically, I don’t think it makes a lot of difference. As long as the boy is taught to keep it clean, infections should be at a minimal. The plus with keeping the foreskin is that the organ is kept moist and soft - not dried and rough like some circumsized ones can be. That in itself helps sex to be more pleasant, at least in my opinion.

13

“Like father, like son” It’s interesting that your wife is the one pushing this reason. I think it is more often the fathers who have this concern.

My husband is circumcised; our son isn’t. It wasn’t at all difficult to explain to him why he looks different. We simply told him that when Daddy was born the doctors at the time believed it was better to do this to boys to keep them healthier. Now we know differently, so we didn’t do it to him. This explanation seems to have satisfied him. He also knows that some people do still perform this operation on babies for various reasons. So he is not surprised if he notices that one of his friends happens to be cut. No other part of his body is exactly like that of all his friends. Why should this part be different?

My husband’s brother was born in Europe. Their mom, going by her American doctor’s advice, asked that he be snipped. But since they had little experience with the operation they took so little off that, to all intents and purposes, he is uncut. (This is all hearsay from hubby. I have not examined my BIL’s penis.) Neither of these boys was traumatized by their differences.

If you are concerned that he will be singled out in the locker room, I think the rates of circumcision are falling quickly enough that very soon this will no longer be an issue.

In terms of health, you should take a careful look at the numbers. For instance, there is a slightly higher risk of penile cancer. But this disease is so rare (9 to 10 cases yearly in the entire US) that it really isn’t significant. I have also heard it theorized that the numbers are further skewed by the fact that most studied populations of cut men will naturally include a large percentage of Jews who, culturally, have strict rules concerning hygiene and might therefore have a lower incidence of things like UTIs anyway. I don’t know if that really holds water, but it’s an interesting thought. If I am misinformed and simply repeating cultural biases, please correct me.

14

Thats a good link Montfort. I’ve always liked Salon. Thanks for that one. I live (born and bred) in the USA. It is quite interesting that it does seem to be a cultural and (seemly) a geographical thing. Apart from Christanity’s historical link to the Jews, which I am not. (Jewish, that is). Meaning only that my wife and I are not particularly religious, and hence, are not taking that as our queue in reguard to this decision.

Thank you Nimue, for your reassurance.

However there is just the one thing. I would hate to leave it to my son (!) to have to make this decision. I have to hope that any trauma created would not have any unusual, or lasting effects if we have this done shortly after the birth. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine deciding to choose to have such a procedure done as a maturing male.

Still have a few days left to sort this out.

15

Nimue, if you want to edit your post before sending it, click on “preview post.” Once you’ve submitted your reply it can only be edited by a moderator.

16

If you think your hypothetical future mature son would never choose to be circumcised, I don’t see why you would want to do it immmediately after his birth, either.

Although I’m circumcised, I personally cannot understand why the procedure is done now. Why don’t they not cut off a toe while they’re at it? Less toe lint that way…

Anyway, I say why not leave him alone and let him decide later if he wants it removed - you can’t have it reversed, after all, and if he wasn’t supposed to have it, why was he born with it?

But no matter what you decide - congratulations and good luck!

17

To avoid confusion, I’m a chick.

You CAN have it reversed. It’s not a very popular thing to do, but it can be done. It involves pulling and stretching the scar form the circumsion to form a new foreskin.

Mini-hijack-
niveous, or whoever else can answer, “dried out and rough”? WTF? My fiancé is circumsised and as far as I know nothing like that has ever happened. Do I even want to know how?

18

Robinh, thanks for letting me know. I’ve been on other message boards of this format where users can use the edit button to go back and edit their own posts, after posting them, whenever they want. Therefore I thought it was just a temporary quirk I was experiencing.
Thanks again.

19

It would be a Crankified thread unless Cranky came back and posted some story that was a mild hijack. But how often do I get to tell a circumcision story.

Okay, I’m pregnant and I’m e-mailing with a bunch of moms who are also pregnant and we’re wrestling with this issue. A bunch of us come to the conclusion that we didn’t have the equipment, so it wasn’t really our place to decide.

So one of my online girlfriends takes it to her husband. She goes over the pros, the cons, the things we fretted about, etc. The Whole Nine Yard Debriefing on the subject. Then she wraps it up with the “maybe women aren’t the best ones to decide” thing and says, “Honey, what do YOU think?”

There is an uncomfortable pause. Then he says “Um, well, am I circumcised?”
No kidding. He said he never knew, he never even thought about it, every guy he’d ever seen looked the same as him, he had no idea if that’s how you’re born or not. When she stopped laughing her ass off she assured him that he was.

True story.

20

Please tell me it’s not too late.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Please don’t do this to your son.

And pass it on. Tell your friends not to.

Everything you’ve read about the health benefits of circumcision is based on VERY old research. Most of it was preliminary epidemiological data. In other words, they were very crude studies done not to test a conclusion, but to determine if further study was warranted.

For example. Men in country A are circumcised. Men in country B are not. Women in country B have higher rates of cervical cancer. More STD’s in country B.

These studies do not even look at what other factors might account for the differences. Are there religious differences in the two countries that could account for rates of promiscuity. In most cases, yes, there were. But since the researchers were only doing a cursory look at the populations to determine if more thorough research was warranted, they weren’t about the limitations. They didn’t expect anyone to draw conclusions from such preliminary studies.

However, the pro-circ people were desperate. They needed something to show that what they are doing has value.

I for one, find it hard to blame them. It’s not that they’re bad people. Imagine you are a 50 something obstetrician, who went into the business because you loved children who is being told that you’re a butcher for doing a surgical procedure that they told you in med school was beneficial. You’re going to look for a way to justify yourself.

But the truth is…

The foreskin is a very necessary organ.

The irritation that an unprotected meatus receives makes it more susceptible to infection and actually creates an INCREASED risk of STD transmission.

Circumcised boys are more likely to breast feed ineffectively as a result of the trauma of the experience.

Circumcision began as an attempt to prevent masturbation. The irony is that the procedure rips off fine touch receptors in the meatus, leaving primarily deep touch receptors. In other words, at the risk of sounding crude, the circumcised man likes it squeezed. Therefore, he’s going to crave things like oral sex, and hand jobs. I would bet that if you did research, you would find that masturbation is probably more popular with circumcised men.

David had a foreskin. In biblical times, only the end of the foreskin was removed. The removal of the WHOLE foreskin didn’t begin until gentiles began getting into the act much later.

Well, I need to get off of this soapbox for a while.

Let us know what you decide.