I don’t think “has been known to” is generally used to mean “one time.” 
He’s complained about his O-line (like after the Pittsburgh loss in the playoffs).
He’s complained about the team’s play calling.
He’s perennially pouting, and finger pointing when things aren’t going his way.
He gives his receivers the “big shrug” when they drop balls.
But, forget all that. . .that’s perceptions of his on the field behavior, and probably somewhat subjective (although the “Peyton Pout” is pretty infamous by now).
More than any of that, he has damn near killed the team with his contract. While players (like Brady and Adalius Thomas and Richard Seymour) are taking pay cuts – compared to the open market – to keep the Pats together, Manning and Harrison have crippled Indianapolis. It’s why they were starting a rookie left tackle this year, who they have been unable to replace during his injury. It’s why he hasn’t done shit since Harrison has been out, and it’s why they have no one to plug into Dwight Freeney’s spot.
What happened when the Pats lost Rodney Harrison and Richard Seymour for 4 games? They went 4-0.
It takes a big man to turn down guaranteed money like Brady did in his 2006 contract for the sake of the team. Manning wasn’t able to do the same.
I grew up in Baltimore. That was the nicest thing I’ve said about Manning or the Colts in 23 years. 
Heh, good on 'ye. To address a different questions, with the way contracts are constantly restructured - I think Manning’s was re-done this offseason - how much is he making, as compared to Brady?
This (and what Trunk said) was my biggest knock against him, especially when it’s coming from the guy that changes the play at the line more than any other QB.
There’s a pretty in-depth analysis of Manning’s 9 year, $99.2 million contract here. The last table shows the cap numbers for the length of the contract after converting the 2006 and 2007 roster bonuses to signing bonuses. His 2007 cap number is $8.2 million, but it jumps to $18.7 million next year. Look for another offseason restructuring.
The thing is that there’s only so much restructuring can do. Manning’s already been paid more than $91 million on this contract, and the Colts have put less than $36 million of that under the cap. They’re on the hook for $60 million that they’ve already paid for which there is no relief… plus I imagine Manning will still want to be paid next year. They can prorate money paid in signing bonuses, but only over the life of the most recent contract. And if Manning leaves the team, the entire amount has to be charged to the cap the following year.
Compare that to Bradys contract. He signed a 6 year, $60 million extension in 2005. The contract length and amount puts him $1,000,000/year behind Manning in the first place, and Brady’s contract doesn’t cripple his team the way Manning’s does. Brady got a total of $26.5 million in bonuses (compared to Manning’s $53.5 mil), and his cap charges are far less than Manning’s.
For 2008 - 2010, Brady’s contract has cap numbers of $12.8, $12.8, and $11.3 million vs. Manning’s $18.2, $20.7, and $20.0 mil. The Colts will have to keep restructuring Manning’s deal every year; the Patriots don’t have to worry about that with Brady.
I’d rather have Brady in the first place, but when he turns out to be cheaper, it’s a no-brainer.
I don’t fault pro athletes anymore for chasing money. The only way I could do that is if everyone were playing for league minimum, but one guy won’t. Otherwise, take what the market will bear.
Still in all … it doesn’t follow from “the money grab” that Peyton would do the champagne ceremony.
…
Favre did throw a teammate under the bus one time that I can recall – Javon Walker during Walker’s contract negotiation a few years ago.
That’s true - I’d forgotten about that. I would still say Manning’s comments were far worse than Favre’s, but that was a bad move on Favre’s part.
Weren’t they warned by the league prior to getting caught? Thus, it was at least 2 games.
(1) So why is only 1 team being punished for it? and (2) If there’s no advantage to be gained, why do it?
You can’t use videotaped signals from the 1st half to help make decisions in the 2nd half? I may be underinformed about this particular part of the process.
The facts are that their 2008 first round draft pick was taken away and that they were fined. Also a fact is that they were warned by the NFL and still continued to do it. It is also a fact that no other NFL team has been punished for any similar infraction. Finally, I may be wrong here, but I think that the NFL actually destroyed the evidence to prevent any future re-visiting of the incidents.
Thus, the fact is that they cheated. Until recently, there was far more evidence to prove that the Pats cheated than Bonds cheating, since he had never failed a drug test. Of course, now we know otherwise.
I guess I just don’t get the feeling like Peyton’s teammates like him.
Do other people get that?
He always seems to be by himself on the sidelines. He’s never picking another guy up (like Favre does). He’s never butting heads with other guys.
He just seems like he thinks he “above” everyone else. And people toss that label at Brady.
FWIW, I think he’s going to be great in a studio when he’s done playing. He’s got a great personality for that, not to mention his very good on camera demeanor. Brady will be more like Montana in that regard – a dullard.
And keep in mind that its not against the NFL rules (none of this is illegal) to videotape another team’s signals. The rule they broke is doing so from the sidelines. It’s fine by NFL rules to videotape the signals from other areas of the stadium.
Which isn’t to say the Pats didn’t break the rules. They clearly did, and any handwaving claiming others do similar things is pointless. They did a stupid thing, they were caught before they even had a chance to use the information, and they owned up to it. The NFL was right to punish them. I hope all the Pats fans agree on this.
It’s not like that information can’t be gained in other ways in accordance with NFL rules by all teams. I think the benefit of the information has been blown out of proportion in the wake of this scandal, but it was stupid and they shouldn’t have done it.
That and after demanding all the evidence, if anything should surface in the future it’ll indicate they didn’t abide by the demand fully. Then expect a real penalty to come down; a lengthy, if not lifetime, suspension.
How many people speed? How many people get speeding tickets?
That’s a splendid question. I don’t know. Ego. Paranoia. Why call a time-out to ice the kicker, when the statistics suggest it’s a worthless tactic? The fact remains that nearly every knowledgable person I have heard speak on the subject has said that these two things are so. I’m not trying to be combative, but is it really your contention that you’re in a better position to judge the effectiveness and/or prevalence of this particularly tactic than actual, current professional football players, former players, current coaches, and former coaches?
Highly unlikely, would be my guess. You’d need time to analyze the signals versus the plays called, figure out the relationship between the two, then communicate that information to the person calling your offensive plays in a way that he could easily remember and access in the thirty seconds or so between plays. There’s just not time for something like that in the thirty minutes or so that happen at
halftime.
These are all facts. Here are things that are not facts:
(1) There is evidence that the Patriots videotaped signals in a Super Bowl, or preparatory to a Super Bowl.
(2) There is evidence that they gained meaningful advantage in the Super Bowl as a result of those actions.
(3) No other NFL team has ever videotaped signals.
Well, that’s fine, I guess. Millions of people believe that the CIA shot John F. Kennedy and that NASA faked the moon landing. Believe anything you want. But if you’re going to argue that the absence of evidence *is *evidence, then there’s really no room for discussion. You’ve reached your conclusion, and anything that happens or does not happen will reinforce it because you’ll twist it in whatever direction it needs to go to support your opinion.
But there was evidence that Bonds cheated. Not definitive evidence. But his head grew in size. His body grew in size. He displayed physical changes characteristic of steroid use. His power numbers swelled at the same time his body did. His personal trainer was busted for heading a steroid ring. He admitted to using substances that were probably steroids, but said he thought they were flaxseed oil. This is all evidence that Bonds used steroids. Medical professionals and baseball players generally agree that steroids do confer a competitive advantage.
On the contrary, there is no evidence that the Patriots videotaped signals in or preparatory to a Super Bowl. None. Zero. Nothing. There is no expert testimony that they benefitted from this act the times they did do it.
This, I think, is the most important point about this whole thing. The fact that videotaping your opponent’s signals is not illegal makes this a minor procedural infraction at most.
IMO it is on roughly the same level as the time TO got fined for bringing a Sharpie on the field to sign the ball after a touchdown. A rule was broken and someone was punished for it, but the broken rule had no competitive effect on the game.
Given that they could legally tape from the press box, it becomes harder to understand. Why would they risk substantial punishment after being repeatedly warned if they didn’t feel it would give them some competitive advantage?
I’m not sure why they did it. If I had to guess, I would say that they may have simply not expected that substantial punishment if they were caught. From what I understand, in previous similar cases the camera guy was just thrown out. It’s a pretty big leap from that to losing a #1 draft pick and three quarters of a million dollars.
Dunno. They were stupid and arrogant. My guess is they didn’t expect substantial punishment since it had never happened before, but they’d been warned about this specifically. It really was a boneheaded move by the team.
Bellichick takes any advantage or perceived advantage he can get. It makes him an excellent coach but it also (apparently) causes him to do some stupid stuff. They way he uses the injury report is another one, but no one pays any attention to that anymore.
If they did, they really suck at it. In all three Superbowls the Patriots played much better in the first half than the second.
In the Peyton-is-a-whiner folder, don’t forget it was his whining that got pass interference emphasized. I miss the days of shutdown corners.
ISTM the NFL was forced into making a harsh response by the fact that a common procedure was put into the public’s attention. The integrity of the game wasn’t affected, but the public image of its integrity was, and that had to be gotten control of and very visibly smacked down.
But the suspicion has been raised now to the public’s, and bettors’ attention that a number of other teams may be doing the same thing, that other tactics are also being used without any whistleblowing so far, and that can’t be put in the past all that quickly. The heavy penalty is Goodell’s way of saying “Don’t get caught, and don’t rat out other teams either or you’re going to get ratted out yourself and then I’ll have to do the same to you. This shit ain’t good for business.”
If there’s any dissension in that locker room, it sure isn’t obvious.
Brady isn’t headed for the studio anyway. His off-field career has been in modeling, not TV.