I know there are racist people out there, but it seems from this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78447
That young people these days are more open minded than their elders. Is it just me?
I’ll venture a rare note of optimism and say that I think many are more open-minded, at least about racial issues. Not all, but many.
I base this guess on a single subjective observation. The schools in my small east Texas hometown were desegregated when I was beginning the 8th grade. There were no interracial friendships, at least not publicly. Now, 26 years after I graduated, whenever I make the mistake of returning, I see many mixed groups of friends.
I think society is dragging its feet a little on the way to enlightenment, but it is making some progress.
What do you mean by open minded? I always thought that being open minded was the ability to take new information and give it serious consideration. But maybe that’s not what you meant.
I think most younger people are less prone to overt racism. But we all hear racial jokes from time to time don’t we? If you go into a school cafateria during lunch you can find tables seperated by race.
Marc
Are people who deliberately attempt mingling with different races open minded?
I know a guy, a white American, who at one time professed a strong desire to marry a black woman (or foreign woman) because he didn’t think he’d be happy with a white one. If someone is racist because he dislikes different races for unfounded reasons–what should someone be called who likes different races for unfounded reasons?
I’m very cynical and can’t but wonder if this guy’s desire for a black woman was not in some way based on a need not to be labeled racist. There is a lot of pressure to be non-biased nowadays and need to experience cultural diversity is kind of expected—perhaps even forced upon people. Is that really open minded?
BTW, the guy made his declaration of desire to marry a black women about ten years ago; when he turned forty this summer he was still single, but dating a white American women.
for every individual, it’s a general rule that you assimilate new data faster at a young age than you do at an older one. this includes understanding new problems, concepts, solutions, etc. later in life, it becomes harder and harder to throw out your entire belief system for something new. granted, this is not true of everyone, but for every person that can continue to assimilate knowledge well into his/her later life, there’s one who was never good at it to begin with. thus the negative linear slope.
i’m thinking the same thing might be true of a generation of individuals, too. every generation, in its early years, is a pain in the ass to the generation before it. in its early years, every generation is still coming to grips with the world around it, still able accept all sorts of things because, hell, their whole lives are ahead of them. thus, compared to that older generation, they come off looking more open-minded. which they are, but that’s not something particularly special, as every generation looks open-minded when it’s young.
not every generation comes off as more open-minded, as some have certainly been more closed-minded than their predecessors, but the basic principle holds: each generation, ideologically, starts where the last one (their parents) left off and goes a few steps this way or a few steps that way, some individuals being more extreme than others, some not changing at all.
anyway, yeah, we’re more open-minded, but that doesn’t mean we’re especially gifted or anything.
The rest of the world is – slowly – becoming more cosmpolitan, more diverse, and more tolerant … following the shining example set by all of us here in Los Angeles. 
Whether we’ll reach that state before the conservatives and the fundamentalists destroy us all, though, is another question.
By open minded i mean being able to accept new ideas and things like that.
:rolleyes:
Or the liberals govern us into oblivion. Whatever.
Don’t claim to be open minded and then slam peoples with opposing views, hypocrite.
–Tim
Considering that the fundamental definition of social conservatism is to “maintain the status quo” or “revert to an earlier social structure” – y’know, when Jim Crow laws were good, interracial dating was an instant scandal, and women should be barefoot and pregnant – I thought it should be obvious that Conservativism would be the antithesis of “open-mindedness”.
For you to suggest otherwise strikes me as being as silly as saying George W. Bush is an advocate for honest and accurate election recounts, or Bill Gates being a supporter of antitrust law.
You know, rjung, perhaps you should become a little more familiar with the past before you go throwing accusations around like that.
I might recommend Stephanie Koontz’s excellent book, “The Way We Never Were” to you. While many conservatives do yearn for the abnormal society of the 1950s (although I believe the highest level of teen precnancy in this century in the US was 1959), women did not always used to be barefoot and pregnant, sexual mores did tend to be a lot looser, etc. during other years.
Just because we’re going forward in time doesn’t always mean all things are getting better.
madcowmccoy, this is the second time in the past hour I’ve noticed your posts in a thread I’m interested in. I’ve started reading your posts, and you seem pretty intelligent, but I stop two lines in because my eyes are starting to hurt. Use capitals, dammit!
Anyhow, back to the OP. No, the new generation is not more open-minded. It is certainly more in tune with my thinking on social issues, but “progressive” is not “open-minded”. Overall, I see a distressing tendency to impute evil motivations in those who disagree with them.
No doubt this tendency has always existed amongst the young. I recall several ill thoughts I had about Ronnie Ray-gun. But until the “new generation” acknowledges that those who disagree with them have legitimate, and very often rational, reasons for having a contrary POV, I could not call them “open-minded.”
Sua
this is true. (i bow to no one! Alright, just kidding.)
I agree that “liberal” and “open-minded” are hardly the same thing. Liberals can be just as dogmatic, close-minded, irrational, and intolerant of opposing views as conservatives, as both the cry-baby responses to Horowitz’s adds and rjung’s “contributions” to this thread show. In fact, seeing as how conservatism is a belief in traditional values, and one of the US’s traditional values is open-mindedness, somethimes conservatives are more open-minded.
It’s called “simplification for dramatic effect,” Necros. It’s easier to get a point across with “barefoot and pregnant” than “fewer liberties at home or in the workplace that women enjoy today, including readily available contraceptives and pay that’s nearly comparable to men’s.”
Depends on whose perspective you’re looking at things from. I suspect most women and minorities would say things are better off today than they were fifty years ago, while Jesse Helms would undoubtedly be in strong disagreement.
Uh … yeah. :rolleyes: Why, I’m positively overflowing with examples of noted conservatives who were major advocates of progressive reforms and open-minded advances in society. Like Abraham Lincoln, and … er … um…
Yes and No.
Things have changed a lot. In many (perhaps even most) places it is no longer acceptable to be outright bigoted. Increased urbanization brings diversity into people’s lives. It is in many ways a different world than it used to be.
But the more things change, as they say, the more things stay the same. I watched *Traffic[/i} the other night, and there was a scene where a young white woman was in bed with a black man. This is a scene that we were supposed to react with horror over. I reacted with horror, but a different kind. Yes, the social fear of black men sleeping with our good white women is alive and well. Eighty someodd years after Birth of a Nation it still makes a good movie plot! And the economic factors that hurt minorities are still alive in full force. For the most part, the people that go places in America are still the white folks, and the black folks still get the short end of the stick.
I can’t really say that things are all that better. Bigotry may be a little more hidden, and a little more subtle, but it is still there and it still hurts just as hard.
I know maaany kids my age who are closed-minded. Often this isn’t closed around religious beliefs but just closed as a result of living a sheltered life without being encouraged to seek new ideas and viewpoints.
I don’t think we’ll see a huge change in open-mindedness until a majority of parents are willing to say to their kids “You know what? I could be completely wrong. You should try and come to your own conclusions by reading about these things and discussing them with a diverse group of people”.
I know by the time I heard this (or rather, by the time I realized I needed to do this, my parents never really said anything about it) I had already formed some ideas in my head prematurely which doesn’t make it any easier to be open-minded.
…and now for something completely different:
I didn’t think the fact that the man in question was black had much bearing on the reaction… I would have reacted with the same disgust if it was an old white guy injecting a 16 year old girl with heroin and fucking her as payment. In fact I think one of the drives behind this movie was to break down many of the stereotypes (rich white kids do drugs! :eek: … mexican cops aren’t all corrupt! :eek: )
Take away the funny filters, and you still have the same old story. The Mexicans sell drugs to your rich white girl and the black man fucks her, and this is a bad thing. Try watching movies while focusing on exactly what is going on with the black men. Chances are they are either dying, often for the good of the white folks (Final Fantasy), threatening the “purity” of the white women (Traffic) or being chased around for our enjoyment (Enemy of the State). Our portrayals of the black man have not changed signifigantly since Birth of a Nation* in 1917. As pretty and innocent as modern views of race look on the outside, it only takes looking a little bit closer to see how ugly things still are.
Regarding the OP, I happen to be part of the younger generation, having just turned 21. From what I’ve seen at school (in Albany, NY) for the last three years, I’m sure that great strides are being made. That said, real social enlightenment will have to wait another generation. The kids from New York City, for the most part, have their heads on straight. Everyone else, for the most part (especially Long Islanders), takes homophobia for granted and has a better hidden yet none-too-encouraging racist streak. I’ve spent many a meal biting my tongue (figuratively) because of this.
As for even sven:
Your thesis surely has some amount of truth to it – precisely how much is debatable – but I think you could have chosen better examples. In Final Fantasy, the whole crew dies (except for the heroes, natch), not just Ving Rhames (sp?). In Enemy of the State, Will Smith was the freakin’ hero. Moreover, how many white men have played the exact same character (Average Joe being hounded by super-powerful government shadow-conspiracy)? In Traffic, the issue of race as it relates to the black market is intentionally brought up (a germane topic, I might add). Hence, the girl’s dealer is black. If we’re supposed to be shocked by anything, it’s that she becomes a prostitute (or “crack whore,” more specifically), a shocking descent form her priveleged life at home. That she gets screwed by a black man is largely incidental.
To a certain extent, I think we fall into the “I buried Paul” trap here. If, at the end of “Stawberry Fields Forever,” you really listen for the phrase “I buried Paul,” you’ll probably hear it. If you listen for the phrase “Cranberry sauce,” (which was actually said), then that’s what you’ll hear. Same thing with racist cinematic subconsciouses.
But enough of this. The real question is: why the hell do I see so many movies?