When you grow balls.
Well It is a good map but I still want a racetrack map.
As the votes come in the candidates move around a horse racing track. Riding donkeys and elephants with candidate avatars. And grandstands with little people cheering and booing as the results come in.
That would be awesome.
It will. We’ll see if people buy into the “stunning re-reversal” storyline that the news seems to be crafting.
Who says it’s your country? The dynasties paid good money for it. 
Please don’t tell me it’s dependent on this.
Maybe someday U.S. historians will call the 90-2000’s the dynastic decades. It has sort of a nice ring to it.
That reminds me: what’s Ralph Nader up to these days?
Folks, crack open your history books and wake up to the fact that family ties and politics are as American as apple pie. The Adamses, the Harrisons, the Roosevelts, the Bushes, and maybe even the Clintons. And that’s just presidential families.
The Clintons are related (by marriage). So fucking what? Won’t be the first time we’ve had people from the same family in public office. Hell, if we were a little more evolved, we might have seen Eleanor Roosevelt do the same thing back in the 1940s.
Good point. Laura Bush '12!
I rather agree. From just since 2000, Gore’s father was a senator, Romney’s father was governor of…something. Liddy Dole ran in 2000, Bush’s and Clinton’s families political ties are obvious, Chris Dodds father was a senator…somewhere, and those are just off the top of my head. I suspect there’s more. For better or worse, political families are hardly unique in the US.
Clinton is/was the exact polar opposite from GWB. I have no fucking idea how you can lump the two of them together. Might as well throw in Carter, Ford, Nixon, and Johnson. :rolleyes:
Super Tuesday is goning to be interesting. Finally my vote counts.
I predict that by the 2012 election we’ll have finally moved past arguing over whether a candidate deserves votes based on who they’re related to, in favor of more critical factors like what kind of house pet the candidate favors. This candidate claims to have ‘positions’ on ‘issues’… but they also own a dog! Do we really want to perpetuate the canine dynasty in the White House? When will we cat people get our country back? I’m sick of the whole cat/dog dynasty in Washington, and plan to vote for the guy who has fish! Whatever his name is… I think he also favors eating Mexicans or something like that. But the important thing is, he raises cichlids!
Yeah. Politics, or “public service,” as those in the business call it, is a family business, like owning a hardware store or being a Trump. People who are aggressive and go after the brass ring tend to be successful.
I have no idea why some people think politics isn’t a job and a vocation like anything else.
Mitt Romney’s dad was governor of Michigan, btw.
It looks like Hillary’s machine in New Hampshire really helped her tonight. This really wasn’t a surprise. She’s been leading there for months and she had the apparatus to turn out the vote. Obama surpassed what the expectations were for this state even a week ago. I have no idea where the Dem race is going except that Edwards is done and it’s between Barack and Hillary.
McCain’s margin of victory didn’t end up being all that big. I have some doubts as to whether he’ll really sustain any momentum, but I can see '96 happening all over again. A religious conservative starts getting the fundies excited and the establishment gets spooked into nominating the safe, boring war hero who’s been around forever and whose “turn” it is. Against Obama, McCain would get thumped. Against Hillary, I have no idea.
I’m stilling pulling for Obama but I ahve to admit that seeing Hillary get elected POTUS would be sweeter than honey just because of all the tighty-righty heads that would explode. If she actually wins the whole thing, I will taunt her haters without mercy. I will dance and gloat long after it ceases to be amusing. I will be a total dick about it.
Fuck you Liberal.
I’m sick of your fucking horseshit.
You come in and snipe away at this fucking ridiculously important time with your stupid bullshit. I realize that you might be very good at representing your opinions and that you are very good at arguing, but you are a complete piece of shit for that statement.
“When you grow balls”
Who is that aimed for? Republicans? Democrats? Who? And how is it helpful to make this statement to someone who is against Hillary? Said person was tired of the Bush Hillary dynasty.
You are a fucking piss poor example of a Southerner. You are without grace and compassion. You always take the opportunity to put down those whenever possible. I think you know what I’m insinuating here. Being a Southerner myself (and a real Southerner) I feel completely qualified to call your bullshit right here and now.
Dio, you are seriously mistaken. As Brian Williams said, this is a historic upset. HRC’s camp had her losing by 11 and hoping for a single-digit loss. Barry’s people had him winning by 14.
Politics is all about momentum… just ask Howard Dean. If anything, the story here (and it’s being circulated at blogs like Wonkette) is that there might be a concerted effort by NH voters to fuck with pollsters and say they were going with Obama when in fact they intended to vote for HRC (or for the independents voting for McCain).
Supposedly the “gaffes” of the week - HRC getting testy in the debate, invoking 9/11, Bill C going wild-eyed over Barry’s free pass from the media - didn’t have the assumed negative impact (unless she was really going to win by more that 6000+ votes). Bill C even sent out word that they were looking for a “strong showing” rather than a win. Mark Penn and the campaign staff were making copies of their resumes, seeing as they were going to get shitcanned later this evening.
It’s not quite “Dewey Defeats Truman” - it’s only the second contest of the primary season - but it keeps HRC in the race. It’s the biggest story of the campaign so far. (Especially if you compare to another come-from-behind victory by another candidate in NH back in 1992.)
I don’t think that’s a given at all. You’ve got the war hero with tons of international experience in the Senate and… Barry with the great speeches and visions of hope. GOP would bash BO constantly on the experience angle, and don’t forget, this is Mr. Straight Talk Express. Hillary could go toe to toe with McCain.
Obama’s appeal to young folks is a recipe for disaster. If there’s anything that the Dems have learned over the past eight years, it’s that youngsters never come through when you need them the most. It’s fallen apart in NH - and it would be a losing strategy nationally. You have to get the old guard and union folks on your side as well.
Huge ramifications for this HRC victory/BO upset. One of the biggest unions in NV was going to endorse BO tomorrow, but word has it that the national union has asked the state unit to remain neutral. Whoa!
With you on this one.
I agree, but my gut says Obama has a much better chance nationally than Hillary. Hillary is just too polarizing a figure. I wish to be proved wrong on this point.
I think Obama v. McCain would be close. I have many friends who (quite surprisingly) support both. Honestly, I almost like McCain despite the fact that his politics are quite different than mine. Hillary v. McCain I would expect McCain to win, despite what polls may be saying now (and we’ve seen how good the polls were for today.)
Paul Tsongas?
Er, you know what I mean. The guy who came in second, even though he was supposed to lose badly.
One change in NH seems to be greater visibility for Chelsea Clinton in the campaign. Big, big asset for HRC, and she’d be wise to figure out a way to help her connect to the young voters. You know, the ones who actually show up to the rally and vote.
There was a big deal being made about BO’s huge crowds, and I’m not sure why. Everyone knows he’s a gifted orator. I would go to his rally just to hear him speak. As would my dyed-in-the wool Republican buddy who hates Bill Clinton, but was right next to me at his campaign stop in Austin back in '92.
Moderator’s Warning: Merkwurdigliebe, you are so far over the line the line can’t even be seen from where you are. Do NOT post like this in Great Debates again.
This keeps it a fight which many of us, including those who support Obama, are not too disappointed about, but to call it “a historic upset” because two days of polls had swung her into the loss column big and only one CNN report that morning pointed out that they were actually neck and neck still among Democrats with the rest of his surge being among independents who might decide to vote for McCain instead, that’s a bit much.
It was premature to have had labeled HRC “inevitable” for the past 9 months and it was way premature to call her attempt “on the ropes” just because Obama won Iowa and had a few good polls.
The truth is that HRC and Obama both won 9 delegates from NH yesterday. Both now will be looked at by the rest of the country and decided upon as the serious contenders they are.
Obama needed to win Iowa. HRC needed to win or at least not get trounced in NH. Both have managed to do what they need to do to stay alive in the race. To make it out as more than that is silly.