New "Let It Go" Rule in GD?

[John_Mace]

You guys are twins? I knew you were sisters, but I hadn’t realized you were twins.

[enipla]

@jsgoddess

Mars licks the blue fruity.

The raccoon always comes at midnight. Or 10pm you really don’t know.

1,2,5 or I mean 3.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Yeah , you keep that in mind. I never claimed to be any kind of wunderkind, I am here for Zoe. She may bnot want to be associated wqith me and that is fine.
Everything else is gravy.

[askeptic]

@Abby_Emma_Sasha

Everything else is gravy.

Or bourbon apparently…

[wonky]

There are threads I understand, and there are threads I do not understand.

I thought I understood this thread.

I was wrong.

[FaerieBeth]

@askeptic

Or bourbon apparently…

Bourbon in the gravy, however…

[enipla]

Well and good. I did get here in the middle of the thread. And Zoe asked some questions. That’s OK.

I think It’s good that Zoe came here to ask some questions and bitch about things a bit.

I don’t think the pile on is quite right. All of us are a product of our environment. Be It parents, where we live, the jobs that we have. Or those that we love and love us.

Life is a job. Sometimes things are simple. Sometimes, not so much.

jsgoddess- The sparrow crosses underwater.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@enipla

jsgoddess- The sparrow crosses underwater.

A wet duck never flies in underwear.

[wonky]

@EddyTeddyFreddy

A wet duck never flies in underwear.

Sez you!

[Starving_Artist]

@you with the face

I don’t know what you’re talking about, dude. I started one thread about a dirty old man who couldn’t take no (or my version of no for an answer), and that’s it. If you think that’s enough evidence of my supposed attractiveness, then you might want to get out more.

One thread; several comments. I seem to remember a photo somewhere too.

No offense in any regard - people generally appreciate being called attractive.

@you with the face

But yeah, you’re right that I do have a chip on my shoulder. I have the compulsion to argue against anything that strikes me as stupid and nonsensicsal.

This place must keep you very busy. How do you find time to eat?

[you_with_the_face]

@Starving Artist

No offense in any regard - people generally appreciate being called attractive.

I appreciate the compliment, so thanks for that. Just wanted to make sure this idea of my attractiveness wasn’t because you think I go around talking about I’m teh hotness.

This place must keep you very busy. How do you find time to eat?

Well, I am on the thin side.
jsgoddess: Driftwood monkeys float on their back so they can always see the intergalactic formations. And I have 5 fingers. Pimps, players, and hustlers.

[Starving_Artist]

Good. I’m glad there are no hard feelings.

And for what it’s worth, I’ve never gotten the impression from your postings that you regard yourself as ‘teh hotness’. It’s just that I’ve found myself wondering, given the gifts you have, why the chip on your shoulder.

But then again, we all have our crosses to bear and it’s not really any of my business, is it? :smack:

[wonky]

@Starving Artist

It’s just that I’ve found myself wondering, given the gifts you have, why the chip on your shoulder.

What you apparently see as a chip on her shoulder I see as strong opinions and an assertive style–like many dopers. I suspect it’s the types of debates she’s most often in that has her opponents thinking chip on the shoulder rather than simply passionate debating.

[Starving_Artist]

Perhaps, although she admitted to having one herself a few posts upthread. But she has shown an intellectual honesty and sense of humor in this thread that I think is admirable, especially in light of what I had to say about her.

[twickster]

She’s showing a hell of a lot more grace and good humor – let alone willingness to participate in this thread – than, oh, say, the OP.

[Zoe]

You’re right, twickter.

The support that I have gotten from you guys has been incredible. That’s what I needed from this thread. Thanks!

Tom: youwiththeface and amarinth had an exchange (in which I suspect they were talking past each other to a certain extent) to which you responded with post #49. In that post, you made an odd comment that no one could identify a situation of “one drop.” The phrase has been used for years to indicate that anyone with any non-white ancestry was considered to have been not white. Challenging the use of that phrase on the grounds that one could not find an actual “one drop,” (an assertion that no one had made), simply seemed odd and appeared to be a challenge to the idea that a one drop rule had existed.

You, monstro and apparently you with the face inferred from what I wrote the idea that I was challenging that a one drop rule had ever existed. I was certainly not implying that ridiculous notion and would never have been so stupid or even ignorant as to imply such a thing! This is what was actually said the first time I mentioned it:

you with the face: The rule itself, though, I contend is just as valid as any other rule for assigning race.

Zoe: And no one actually had any way of determining if there was “one drop” of black blood in a person unless you literally sucked the blood from a black person’s body.

Then, immediately following, (and here is where I got into genetic scientific territory that I am uninformed about):

Zoe: If the “one drop” rule had been enforced, no belles with naturally curly hair would have been deemed suitable for marriage. In reality, that was a prized attribute and young ladies with straight hair used curling irons to duplicate the effect. (I’m using this just as an example.)

I was not saying that the “rule” (actually the law) wasn’t enforced; I was saying that the “one drop” part of the law was not enforced because scientifically, there was no way to determine if there was “one drop” of black blood. Further, there have been no descendents of American black slaves that have had just one drop.
It wasn’t until I read monstro’s post that I realized that I must not have made my point clear. you with the face posted this and also makes it clear that she did not understand that I was saying that I was speaking LITERALLY about the “one drop” of blood:

you with the face: Zoe with all due respect, I am completely dumbfounded by your ignorance in this subject. You talk a lot about your Southern background on this board, as well as your job as a teacher. How can you be so ignorant of such a key kernel of Southern American history? To not only reveal such ignorance by picking a fight with me, but to sit up here and actually deny (and with such asthma-inducing logic) that it existed as more than mere theory…it takes the spit out of my mouth, yes it does.

Go to a library or bookstore. Find the African Americans studies section. There are tons of books there detailing the historical accounts of folks that look as white as you. These folks were slaves, these folks were second-class citizens, these folks were sitting in the back of the bus and getting barred from “white” schools. These folks were black. They were labeled as such by society and so they saw themselves that way. Kind of like how it is now.

But before you go running off to Borders, do a quick read on Plessy versus Ferguson. Have you heard of this important ruling, Zoe? It gave Jim Crow segregation the constitutional feet it needed to stand on. Plessy perhaps more so than any other case exemplifies the insanity that was race in 19th century America.

<snip>

So yes, Zoe, the one drop rule was enforced. It was enforced like a mother fucker, if you will. I imagine it must be sort of nice to have lived all the years of your life not knowing the ugliness of our history, but I invite you to step outside the Matrix and do some long overdue research.

It amazes me that she would think anyone could be so ignorant of the very Jim Crow laws that we fought against or that I would have to go to Borders for information about it. But, since I seem not to have made my comment clear, I tried again:

“One drop” is a misnomer, of course. You couldn’t and still can’t test for “one drop” of black blood. In the Supreme Court case that you gave as an example, ywtf, Plessy was one-eighth black and seven eigths(sic) white. The law was only called the “one drop” rule. Plessy was not an example of someone who had only one drop of black blood.

Neither was the more current and still shameful 1986 case that Tom linked to in the Wright essay described below.

To which you with the face replied:

(Should be laughing or crying at this?)

If one-eighth isn’t a drop, what is Zoe? Have far do we have to dilute the Africanness before you’ll be satisfied that this rule was indeed enforced like you deny it was? You’ve essentially stated that it’s wrong to point to a persecuted, phenotypically white octoroon as proof of an applied one drop rule.

Zoe: Since monstro was not clear on what I was saying either, I will assume that I had not made myself clear. After this post, I hope that you will finally understand that:

1. I KNOW that the badly named “One Drop Rule” was indeed enforced and
2. None of the cases presented were examples of people having ONLY one drop of black blood.

you with the face: To interpret the one drop rule in literal terms, to deny that this rule was enforced from that foolishly literal standpoint, and to doggedly insist that the name is a misnomer when the spirit of the rule was quite in line with the literal meaning tells me a lot about your thinking skills. And I’m not impressed at all.

Now how is that for double talk?

Tom: You then made it a point to tell youwithtthe face and jsgoddess (who was not even involved in the exchange) that they should “consider” that not everyone felt the same way on related issues. Unfortunately, you did not support your (implied) accusation of how they saw the world in any meaningful way. You may or may not have been correct regarding their views, but I strongly suspect, (based on a lack of presented evidence) that they saw your statement as a personal attack rather than a debate point.

Tom, I take it that you did not see the earlier exchange between Red Fury and you with the face about the “one drop rule” and the differences in how different parts of the world determine race. jsgoddess was brought into the discussion because she was the original poster of this thread and because she had been so involved in the thread that had lead to this particular thread which was actually challenging my honesty in Gread Debates to begin with. Sorry if that wasn’t obvious.

Is it possible that you did not read the earlier thread that the OP refers to? That would explain a lot. I’m not certain of what accusation you think I have implied of “how they saw the world in any meaningful way.” Maybe that is something that you inferred as opposed to my implying.

At any rate, **I **am the one who asserted that the “one drop” rule was not literal. That didn’t mean that the rule or law itself wasn’t enforced – only that it was impossible to get it down to only one drop. I don’t know why I would not be allowed to make this assertion. It is, to the best of my knowledge, absurd to claim that. When I asked how that could possibly be determined, you offered fascinating links, but not to scientific tests that would determine one drop of “black blood” in six quarts of “white blood.” Well, by then I knew that you didn’t understand what I was saying either.

You then explicitly claimed that youwiththeface had identified persons mentioned in her exchange with amarinth as “white bigots” when she had not done anything of the sort.

And when she corrected me, I replied:

I’m glad to know that you weren’t stereotyping whites as white bigots and apologize for misinterpreting.

In short, Tom, I think that I apologized for the mistakes that I made or had good reasons for things that I said that you did not understand. On the other hand, I do not like it when an entire thread is posted that calls into question my own inner feelings and thoughts. That is what jsgoddess did with her thread. monstro provided the “colorblind” label that was used in an earlier thread, although I don’t think it was intended in a hostile way. Then others thought that I was claiming to be figuratively colorblind.

Since when is Great Debates used to debate the feelings and experiences of other Dopers? I wasn’t talking about beliefs. I was talking about things that only I could know about – the day to day realities of my own life. May I suggest, jsgoddess, that if you are tired of hearing about them, you don’t start a thread questioning the integrity of my feelings? Also, there is also that blessed ignore function.

Few things in my life have been as important to me as my years of teaching. Some of you know from other threads why my family still works off a debt. But it was more than that. It is also a spiritual belief. It isn’t blacks or whites. It’s all of us. I wish that I weren’t so easily shaken, but sometimes the older I get the more useless I feel. So it’s back to teaching and writing and maybe building for at least a few days in late spring. I will be going to Pine Ridge Reservation and staying at Wounded Knee. I don’t know what ages I will be working with.
As for talking about my teaching experiences, I will do that until the day I die – just like some people talk about their children and grandchildren.
I hope that I have not repeated myself or scrambled anyone’s quotation. It was not intentional if I did.

monstro, we will talk again. I don’t believe in “evil.” I think you are a wonderful person. Don’t be hard on yourself about this for any reason. Your feelings are your feelings and they are just fine.

[Zoe]

Sorry about misspelling your name, twickster.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@Vinyl Turnip

you with the face has opted (at least on this board) to be strident, intractable, choleric, and generally unpleasant to deal with

Thank goodness for that. I love, love, love that. I have been working very hard on my character. I have been trying to learn when to stay my tongue. When to let someone else’s pathetic insecurities and ignorance speak for itself. It is damn hard to do that, and I am not even sure if it is worth it to take the so called high road sometimes.

I love that the woman has a fire in her belly and razor on her tongue. And I fucking cheer when she has to cut some moron down with it. Even if I catch a laceration or two sometimes, so be it.

[The_King_of_Soup]

Zoe, every once in a while you say something kind of bizarre, and when confronted, you trot out your story of a valiant egalitarian past. It’s as if, unable to deny it or explain it or apologize for it, you’re attempting to prove that the people challenging you are wrong because someone as wonderful as you couldn’t possibly have meant what you just said. This strategy is bound to fail in the long run.

When you write

@Zoe

And no one actually had any way of determining if there was “one drop” of black blood in a person unless you literally sucked the blood from a black person’s body. If the “one drop” rule had been enforced, no belles with naturally curly hair would have been deemed suitable for marriage. In reality, that was a prized attribute and young ladies with straight hair used curling irons to duplicate the effect. (I’m using this just as an example.)

there is no room for the interpretation that (a) you understand that the phrase “one-drop rule” was a clear and perfectly apt but figurative term for any discoverable sub-Saharan ancestry; or (b) that you realize that it was an actual legal standard that was, indeed, enforced. The bit about the hair is just embarrassing. You’re arguing the one drop rule wasn’t enforced and your evidence is that white people found curly hair (which you imagine to be a sure indicator of black ancestry) attractive. I mean, wow.

Even allowing your grotesquely tortured reimagining of the thread (which would still leave a curling iron to explain), you derailed a serious discussion about race with an inane insistance that a one-drop rule could not have been enforced by literally testing drops of blood, when no one except you betrayed any idea that it ever was. Not that I believe this version, but, positing it just for fun, why’d you do it?

Oh, and this second Pit thread is an interesting ploy. It’s like Broadway producers who, when a show is a flop and closes out of town, edit it a little and reopen it elsewhere, hoping a new name and a new audience will help. Unfortunately, it’s always the same old song and dance.

[Spoke]

Well, this whole business is disheartening. Zoe and you with the face are two of my favorite posters. I sure hope they can get past this dust-up and make peace.