Coming to a CRT TV screen in a seedy bar near you soon! If we can convince the bartender to let us use the DVD player.
Or go see the sequel Vaxxed II … where Johnny visits Grandma in the retirement home and unbelievably, to everyone’s surprise, the poor old lady dies a horribly painful death from an acute case of measles encephalitis with a side order of pneumonia. Of course, not before passing it along to at least a dozen other elderly neighbours in the residence.
Suck It Mandy’s Marvelous Measles!
Says the guy who tried to derail the thread with some completely irrelevant babble about the word “literally” because he thought it was a wonderfully clever opportunity for a gratuitous off-topic insult, and who thinks that when I post a link strongly condemning anti-vaxers and urging respect for science that I must be anti-vax and anti-science. And incidentally, pointing out that a respected cognitive scientist disagrees with Pinker on fundamental issues in the theory of mind isn’t “sneering”, it’s a statement of fact, and the kind of disagreement that is common in science. If I am “sneering” at anything it’s your indiscriminate hero worship and lack of critical thinking and pointless insults.
I hope that the OP has now been disabused of the notion that there is any possible link between vaccines and autism and that it’s clear that Wakefield is a reprehensible fraud, but I will refrain from further comments on your hijack in case there is more to be said on the actual topic.
UrbanRedneck, what is your position regarding all of the evidence (cited here and elsewhere) that the original Wakefield study was not only flawed scientifically but intentionally skewed to get the result he wanted? And the thorough denouncement of Wakefield by the medical community? The invalidity of the original study is glaringly obvious if you do even a minimal amount of reading on the topic. And the medical community, almost all of it, has shunned Wakefield as a dangerous, dishonest charlatan. This is a community of people who know far more about vaccines and safety than you or I do.
Before moving on to any other issues regarding vaccines, how do you dismiss those points? Those points discredit the entire basis of this “debate.”
Surely you don’t just say that it’s all part of the Big Pharma conspiracy. That’s too easy. I’m seriously interested in hearing how you reconcile those points with any continuation of the discussion.
Yes, he was hoping to profit by creating a backlash against the MMR. But he is also deeply antivaccine (or putting on a very convincing show in order to finance a high-end lifestyle).
Not only does he still insist that the MMR vaccine causes autism, he encourages antivax groups (in part through speaking engagements) and is a hero to them - a role he has never shied away from. His antivax views have come to the fore again with the release of “Vaxxed”.
*"…in several cities, the Vaxxed team – discredited scientist Andrew Wakefield, his collaborator Polly Tommey, and producer Del Bigtree, and occasionally others – followed certain screenings with a question and answer session. In those sessions they made false claims that could mislead parents away from protecting their children by vaccinating.
The Vaxxed team claimed that preventable diseases were not prevented by vaccines. Among other things they claimed that vaccines were both ineffective and unsafe, ignoring abundant research showing the opposite: modern vaccines are extremely safe and effective.
Del Bigtree falsely described the hepatitis B vaccine – that protects against a virus that can cause liver disease and cancer – as “injecting a sexually transmitted disease”, potentially scaring parents off protecting their children against this dangerous infection. Finally, the Vaxxed team warned listeners against seeing pediatricians, because they can’t be trusted (see here and here for more of their misrepresentations and misinformation)."*
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/tag/andrew-wakefield/
Has Wakefield ever publicly rejected such nonsense? If so, I’ve never heard of it.
Do not be deceived by those who claim they are not antivaccine, “just pro-safe vaccine”, but who repeat false antivax tropes ad nauseum.
Its slow here, so.
As noted before, there is a TON of research on vaccines. To date, only the corrupt, money-grubbing Wakefield ever found anything and he lied and tortured both kids and data to get that result.
A handful of desperate antivaxxers have been trying to torture data to get some kind of racial result ever since a minor blip appear in one Meta result. What the idiotic anti-vaxxers don’t realize is how a blip can happen and doesn’t mean jack squat
WHy on earth should we let parents spread the plague because they are afraid of needles coming near their precious princes and princesses?
Pharma companies can be sued. If you are thinking of the special vaccine court, well that is a brutal neccessity brought on by lawsuit-happy people and lawyers, and the low profitability of vaccine production.
Umm, they kind of do that?
I think this is the primary reason many parents of autistic children fall for the anti-vax fallacy. When you see your child suddenly lose skills that they previously had your mind instantly tries to see what recent things could have caused this regression, and low and behold it almost always starts shortly after the MMR vaccine. But this is not an issue of cause an effect, it is simply and issue of when in development these events occur. MMR is generally given at around 1 year old and autism symptoms start appearing at 1-2 years old. But the same argument could be used to say that the MMR vaccine leads to walking, since most children start taking their first steps at 1-2 years, (shortly after the MMR vaccine!). Going further up the list you may find that potty training leads to temper tantrums at the grocery store, and the use of acne medication leads to to no longer wanting to be seen in public with ones parents.
This illustrates the danger of post-hoc analyses and ignoring multiple comparisons. One can take pretty much any large study and by looking at enough subsets find one that falls below the arbitraty p<0.05 level of significance.
See the following illustration 882: Significant - explain xkcd
This.
It’s a coincidental-timing fallacy.
Vaccine makers can also be sued (i.e. for a manufacturing problem), just not over allegations of design defect,
I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks. I always thought it was fatal in all conditions. It’s still a nasty fucking disease, and I think any parent who allows their kid to die of an easily treated illness should be infected with it.
Also, here’s the Wiki entry on whooping cough. I link to it because it includes a film clip of someone with the disease – just the sound of the poor kid coughing is enough to chill your blood. I’ll be damned if I would ever allow a child to risk such a thing. Putting even your own child at risk is fucking sick.
Yep, by the same token you would also expect the same correlation between late MMR vaccinations and late onset autism.
Autism r trixy that way.
Huh? I don’t think you’re anti-vax. Nor, on this issue, is your position anti-science.
Well I dont know where you live but here is a video made 6/14/16 with Del Bigtree discussing the movie with regents from the University of California about bringing the movie there.
So it looks like it will be in California soon.
Nava lives in Spain.
There is an independent theater here in Portland showing it. It’s a pretty good market for it, sadly.
But since you’re around, Urbanredneck, would you care to address any of the comments and questions that have been directed at you in this thread?
Thissite is the official movie site and it shows cities its coming to (such as Seattle and Portland). Is yours one of them?
Its hard to when I have a dozen people pounding on me. I’ll try later.
This is one of the worst hoaxes in the history of science. The movie is bullcrap of course.