** kanicbird **, you make a good point. Perhaps one of God’s purposes is to spur our creativity? (I don’t necessarily think that it is. I’m only saying that it’s a good example of how we can’t be sure that we know what the true intention of “the spirit of the law” is.)
Thing is, there is no ‘spirit of the law’. There is the law. If a work around ones not violate the law, it’s fair game. Judaism is a legalistic religion.
njtt, I assume that a maximal spiritual goal you are totally fine with is not to murder people, with your car or otherwise. Next time you argue a speeding ticket, think about that post. Next time you consult a lawyer who consults the law, or when you vote, or talk to an accountant or your brother-in-law about your taxes, think about all the “unnecessary” legalisms and nitpicking involved in coming to a modus vivendi. Moral and equitable life, decent social organization, and your family’s well-being are pretty damned spiritual for many people, even Jews. But in reality there are all these damn finicky details, all of which, goddamn them even more, can be reviewed and revised.
Also I’m reasonably confident, as are most other people, that pre-Diaspora Jewry would have found these intricate laws fully integrated with “the” spirit, assuming they could figure out where such a braggadocious person making the distinction could be coming from. They would not agree with the position nor with what you surmise is that of all other cultures. You graciously acknowledge that some may have some “arbitrary taboos,” but none are like the Jews’ in that special something of pettifogging. Mention has been made of the United States of America. And I submit the Oogo-Moogoo people of the Gazangwa Basin. Thank God there’s at least two others.
Here’s the thing, Joey. You have to understand that the people living under these rules aren’t the same people that made the rules. The rabbis made the rules, and before them other rabbis, and God before them. For the most part, just like traffic laws, people don’t want to follow them. They’re a pain in the ass and a lot of people would like them to work differently. So just like you and I speed and roll through stop signs, they buy ovens with a Sabbath mode.
You may ask, “why don’t they just scrap the rules altogether?” But then you’re basically asking them to discard their entire society and upbringing. It’s like asking you to wear a skirt to work. It just ain’t gonna happen, no matter how much sense it makes.
Ivory’s basically got it. There is the law, and it says what it says, and that’s the end of it. If you don’t like it, you can nudge your toe as close to the line as you like, but you better not cross.
As a cultural parallel, my very Catholic mother insists that 5:00 pm notionally marks sundown, and therefore the end of the day, and thus Saturday at 5:01 pm counts as Sunday. So she’ll go to 4:00 pm mass on Saturday and if the Eucharist is being served at 4:59, she’ll stall as long as possible so she doesn’t eat it until 5:01. Ergo, she’s had the Body of Christ on a Sunday and she’s good til next week. If she can’t stretch it out, she has to go again on real-Sunday. How’s THAT for religious rule-lawyering?
That’s really kind of a shame because the canon law says nothing about sundown. It simply says “Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.”
I know that when they introduced the option to attend mass on the previous evening they explained it by saying that Jews had traditionally considered the day to start at sundown, but the Catholic Church itself never defined the day as starting at sundown. The Church does not claim that Sunday starts at sundown on Saturday. That’s the reason for the traditional Christmas midnight mass – the Church considers the day to start at midnight and the tradition started before the canon law was modified to allow celebration of the feast the previous evening. Note that you don’t have to attend mass before sundown on Sunday either. You can attend anytime from Saturday evening until midnight Sunday.
And before anyone asks, there is no rigid definition of what constitutes “evening.”
Dr. Strangelove:
No, the inclusion of a “non-Eruv-able” space inside an area demarcated by the walls and pseudo-walls that are familiarly used for an Eruv would render the entire demarcated area to not be a valid Eruv.
Re: “spirit” of the law vs “letter” of the law: The thing about Torah laws is that we Jews believe that humans can’t understand the thought-processes of G-d, except through the outlet that G-d has revealed. The letter of the law IS our only guide to what the “spirit” of the law is. As an example, there is the Torah commandment to not take the eggs of a bird while the mother is still at the nest. In human understanding the “spirit” of this law would seem to be an act of mercy toward the mother bird. But the Talmud says that one who refers to G-d as “the one who has mercy on the mother bird” is doing wrongly, because it presumes to know the full breadth of G-d’s intentions in making the law, and that’s not within the human scope. An attitude that certain acts seem to be “circumventing the spirit” assumes that we know more about the “spirit” than the “letter” has revealed. But this is a false attitude in Judaic thought.
I’m not sure exactly what Chessic Sense had meant by “notionally” (and this Jew certainly knows nothing of Catholic canon law), but I’ll say this: If someone is strict because they don’t realize or understand that the law is flexible, that is indeed a shame. But if the person does realize that the law is flexible, but still feels more comfortable by personally going just so far and no farther, and knowingly opts to do so, that is something that I can very easily relate to and empathize with.
I read an article that said that the local rabbi here in Dallas responsible for maintaining the south eruv uses clear fishing line to bridge the gaps not already taken care of by existing power wires.
So are the prohibitions based on directed intentional action rather than taking advantage of something that’s already running?
The reason I ask is because my fridge has a sabbath mode that apparently only disables the lights and adjustment of the temp, while not disabling the compressor or fans. Is the idea that opening the fridge or fiddling with the settings is considered work, while the compressor just running as usual, and taking advantage of that isn’t prohibited?
bump:
Correct. If something will happen without your input, there’s no rule that you need to act to prevent it from happening.
Ditto. The simplest example is reading by an electric light (or a fire, for that matter) that was already on from beforehand.
I sometimes catch myself incorrectly saying that “we don’t use electrical devices on the Sabbath.” We most certainly do use them; we just don’t operate them.
We used to not have these problems, just lit some very tall candles on Friday night.
Are these devices for a regional market? I’ve never heard of such. The closest large Jewish community is probably in Memphis.
I think the Sabbath mode is pretty standard for GE Hotpoint ovens, don’t know about other brands/models.
And yes, I’d wager that Memphis is probably the closest large Jewish community to Central Arkansas, though it’s possible that if your “central” is closer to the southwest corner, Dallas might be marginally closer.
It’s always our taboos which are not so arbitrary and their taboos which are ludicrous…:rolleyes:
It seems that the trend in manufacturing these days is to put lots of features into the product, even those which would appeal only to a niche market. It ends up being simpler and cheaper than making several versions of the same thing. So much so, that the customers who want no-frills (even if they are in the majority) end up paying less to have features and not use them, than they would spend on an actual no-frills model that was tailor-made for them.
(We had a thread on this a few months ago. I think it may have been about how an automatic transmission car is cheaper than a manual transmission, even though the manual ought to be cheaper to manufacture.)
Jewish people are not allowed to actively do work, including cooking and even turning on/off lights or alarms. However, they may be the passive recipient of an oven programmed to turn on and off at a certain time.
By disabling the lights, they may “safely” open the oven to put a meal in before it turns on (without turning on the light by opening the oven). By disabling the timer alarm when the dish is finished cooking, they do not risk listening to an incessant beeping that would be sinful to turn off.
This is very in line with the account about Manna given to the Jewish people from God during the Exodus. On the sixth day get everything ready for this day and the next, because you won’t be able to work to get manna on the seventh. So the preparing by working extra on the sixth so you can coast through the seventh seems to make some sense.
Oddly enough, my 5-year-old oven doesn’t have so much as a timer or clock on it, even analog. I wonder how much my apartment complex (which is pretty nice, $1100/mo for a 2-bedroom) saved by buying the most ridiculous ovens in the world.
I’m very surprised. These “Sabbath-mode” ovens are a direct result of our inability to find appliances which consist of a manually-operated gas valve, pilot light, and almost nothing else. It wasn’t until the manufacturers started adding the 12-hour shutoff (which is indeed a great safety feature) and other electronics that we started to have these problems.
I’m curious which part of the world you’re located in, and if you might be able to tell us the manufacturer and model number of this old-fashioned marvel.
I’m currently researching appliances and I’ve noticed the Sabbath mode on several vendors options. Samsung is my current leader for kitchen appliances and all models we’re considering have “Sabbath Mode Star K certified”.
Well, mine is electric, so it wouldn’t fit the other criteria, but it’s a Whirlpool RF3010XEW2. I live in Seattle.