Explosive article here -
The Killing of Osama bin Laden by Seymour M. Hersh
Quite a read. If true it’s a blockbuster story. The main issue is that it relies primarily on the veracity of one source, and as the Rolling Stone debacle showed us that can be problematic if the source is playing you.
>sigh< I suppose it was inevitable…
Seems strange that Obama would stick to the “tracking the courier” story if it weren’t true, since he gets the credit for authorizing the hit, no matter how we found out where Bin Laden was. But the courier thing is the number one example the Dick “Dick” Cheneys of the world point to when arguing that we got vital information from [del]torture[/del] enhanced interrogation.
Still one percent more credible than Seymour Hersh.
A major factor in Obama’s reelection? Bullshit.
The title of this thread should contain the word “alleges” instead of “reveals.”
Appealing to incredulity is never a good sign. Things that seem irrational in hindsight happen all the time. If you have facts that contradict the main story, you bring them. Instead, he actually is asking people on the street what they think the Pakistani military must’ve known.
It’s also odd that said Pakistani military would deny the claim, when being involved would have better served their interests.
A story from a single source comes long afterwards, requires a conspiracy, and relies on incredulity. This can only convince those who want to believe.
Given the divided nature of the Pakistanis, I am not surprised that they don’t know who knows what. At any rate, I am going to need more than anonymous second- and third-hand sources. Plus, who cares? bin Laden is dead. Intelligence matters are messy. This isn’t the movies.
Regards,
Shodan
US soldiers, with or without help or complicity (or obstruction) of other countries and forces, located OBL and blew his brains out on the spot.
Everyone who has a problem with that, regardless of the details, raise your hand.
The US probably used an incredible array of informants, surveillance and tactics to get the information and pull off the raid, and would like to keep those assets secret. So all those who think it’s a problem that the US claimed it was swamp gas reflecting the light of Venus off a weather balloon, raise your hand.
Thought so.
I respect Hersh and his work, but I’ll be comfortable with the US going to 100% transparency on such things when the enemies do.
What Shodan and A.B. said, gotta be with them on this one.
“Reveals”?? How does Seymour know *he’s *not getting a (yet another) snow job now?
Besides if we were fully transparent about these sorts of Ops, the CinC would get accused of throwing our assets under the bus and ruining out intelligence-gathering capabilities and it would be “proof” that he does not care about the lives of “the troops”.
Why is Hersh these days reduced to publishing his blockbuster exposes in the London Review of Books?
It seems that the top-line media outlets that used to feature his stories are shying away.
Apparently there is unease about the veracity of his sources.
If I ever met Hersh, I would just make up the biggest fucking lies that I can: George W Bush was really the first man on the moon. The CIA invented stevia to fuel their crack importation schemes in the 1980s. Obama isn’t a secret Kenyan, he’s a secret Russian. The World Trade Center was actually owned by a secret Bin Laden shell corporation, and he blew them up to collect the insurance money.
I bet all of them would make it into print.
Regardless of Mr. Hersch’s credibility, we do know that at least some elements of the story were dramatized by the administration. Bin Laden did not try to use his wife as a human shield, as was initially claimed. He was shot on sight; capturing him doesn’t seem to have ever been seriously considered.
This.
bin Laden seen buying Ray-Bans on Hollywood Blvd? That’d be a story. SEAL team member comes out with, “Yeah, the guy we wasted turned out to be a Kuwaiti software engineer on holiday?” That’d be a story.
But “Well, yeah, bin Laden really is dead at the hands of the US military, but the details of the story are somewhat different…” Yawn city. Tell me some more about our elected policymakers who believe more in mysticism than science–there’s some reality that matters, which we can do something about.
It would also explain why, if some knew anything, they’d opt for an ass-saving “I know nuffin’!” instead of admitting involvement.
They don’t want to offend the fundamentalist Islamics in Pakistan who supported bin Laden.
Even if the Pakistanis sent him an engraved invitation with MapQuest directions to bin Laden’s house, at least Obama had the moral courage to go ahead and take the chance that it wasn’t some innocent schmuck, or that some babies would get shot in the process. I think that’s the point - not that Hersch could dig up some low-level mililtary attache who will say nine years after the fact “sure, we knew all about it at the time”.
Osama bin Laden fucked with us. So, eventually, we fucked with him, and tossed what was left over into the ocean. RIP, asshole.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m still trying to figure out what’s explosive about it. The fact that the US wasn’t 100% candid about its top secret sources of information and our sensitive diplomatic relations with Pakistan? Why would we ever think for one minute that we’d ever hear the full story on that?
I think Hersh has some truth here. the fact is, both of our “allies” (Pakistan and SA) have had extensive contacts with terrorist organizations. In fact the saudis fund all manner of Wahabist organizations that advocate terror. The Pakistan ISI as well is know to have leaked US secret info to forces opposed to us. Who needs enemies with friends like this?
As I understand it, they’re the only kids in that neighborhood who will play with us at all, so we put up with them occasionally stealing our lunch money or slapping a ‘kick me’ sign on our backs.
This exposé is not exposing much, if anything. I guess we’ll hear more soon, but I didn’t notice anything that directly contradicted the ‘official’ report and I recall some speculation about these reported events in the past.
Already widely debunked.
And how long does it take to work out a deal with the US anyway??? Good grief.
The timing of this report is key. It’s election time. Hillary is in that famous photo. Time to start a disinformation campaign. (Ditto why the Lewinsky crap is suddenly front page news again.)
In all this time, no one on the US side has revealed this big information? Only in conspiracy nut land does this happen.