I see. Because I wish to hold on to our retirement and not pay MORE taxes to support people who have zero to do with me, I am heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish? How do you characterize those who demand that I pay to help support them? Why is it that it is OK to not empathize with the position of those who are looking at paying more and more tax, when they will soon be on a fixed income?
And fercrissakes, what does me getting tired of paying all this tax have to do with “a bitter lonely woman” blah blah blah? Sheesh. No, I don’t go to church at all.
The last year I worked, 2007, we paid over $30,000 in payroll taxes alone. In 2008 we didn’t pay much in the way of payroll since we only had a little over four months worth of payroll that year; this year, it appears we will be well up in the tens of thousands again since my husband is working, and my SSDI is taxed. How much do you want us to pay out before you won’t think it “heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish” for us to want to be able to live the decent life that we have worked to earn?
Count em up… you’re heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish because you consider yourself the center of the goddamn universe and to hell with any one else. I haven’t heard one SHRED of sympathy for anyone else anywhere in this trainwreck. Is there anyone on the planet that you think is equally worthy of consideration as poor poor you? We all pay baby. We just pay in different ways and you need to stop whining about it or someone is going to drop a house on you.
Note to moderators: the phrase “drop a house on you” is a clear literary reference to another heartless, insensitive and incredibly selfish witch (see the Wizard of Oz) and should not be construed in any way as wishing death on someone.
What!?!? Are you saying that the point of the Good Samaritan isn’t that if you come upon someone who needs medical attention, you should deny them health care?
According to your own testimony, you grew up in poverty, and rose out of that to become what you call middle-class and some people would call wealthy. The point is, you are no longer poor, and will fight hard to keep from becoming poor again. Which is completely reasonable, since being poor sucks. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
What some people are proposing are government reforms which would improve the lot of the poor. You object because the tax increases necessary for such a program might drive you back into poverty, which is unlikely but possible. Of course, it’s also possible (though, again, unlikely) that you and your husband could become poor again through some means completely unrelated to your tax burden, whether or not these reforms pass.
But you know what? If the reforms happen, and if you somehow lose all your money, being poor will suck a lot less than it did the first time. That’s why these programs are referred to as a ‘safety net’–they won’t keep you from falling, but they’ll make it hurt less when you land.
Just a friendly reminder: You still haven’t provided us a single cite that shows you’d pay more in taxes.
What do you think of allowing drugs to be imported from Canada? This would drastically reduce the costs of prescriptions in this country. It would personally benefit you. For or against?
Why do you expect sympathy from people who have nothing to do with you? So what if you become poor? So what if you eat catfood from now until you die? You have zero to do with me: explain why your personal situation should be a concern for anyone at all.
No, bitch. The subject is that I had to invoke Mod help to get you to stop PMing me, and now you keep bringing up the contents of our PMs. I don’t see how that equates to ME being childish.
There will always be poor people. They cannot be eliminated. We can try to help them, if you want there to be fewer, but it costs money. You cannot have it both ways-- helping fewer people be poor, but spending zero dollars on it.
The fact that you are making shit up yet again and putting words in torie’s mouth shows how weak your position is. She never said “society owes her support.” She qualifies for Medicaid for her kid, so she avails herself of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that; it’s why such programs exist. In Canada, she would not need to be made to feel like a freeloading welfare queen by the likes of you, because she would just get the free health care. So, in Canada, she’d be a productive member of society; in the US, assholes like you get to make her feel like shit for getting health care coverage for her child by 100% legally available means. Nice.
The government is not supporting her. The government is providing health care coverage for her kids. The fact that you can’t see the difference is really your problem.
Since you are so much greater in your understanding, why don’t you explain to me what the impact of these laws will be, and why this will be a problem that I should care about? Please include cites.
Start with the one Max Baucus is supporting. See what that one is all about. Then get back to us with some numbers.
Translation: “I have been offered evidence that UHC will not cause me and my husband a tax increase, but this does not jibe with my version of reality, where helping poor people will make me poor, so I refuse to believe it. Ironically, earlier in this very post, I accused someone else of liking to play pretend. Bwahaha!”
Sure I can-- zero is an actual number, isn’t it?
Translation: “Lalala, I refuse to believe that UHC won’t cost me anything, despite evidence provided to the contrary, so I’m going to pretend that it will because it will further fuel my paranoid fears of incipient poverty caused by all the welfare queens and their baybeeeees!”
Hint - more is not the same thing as any. No one is saying that there aren’t any kids born into poverty, they are just saying that there aren’t more kids born into poverty every year.
Can you see the difference? Maybe you should save up some budget money and buy a dictionary.
So you are saying that you are recommending the UHC programs from other countries, even tho you have no information to offer about them? Does this mean you have no idea if any of those countries have “people dying in the street, are not ‘taxing the middle class out of existence’ or threatening peoples mortgages”?
It helps if the anecdote actually addresses the subject.
You don’t remember very well do you? The most I’ve ever earned is over $30,000 - I’d have to go back and look, but I think it was close to $35,000. And we paid more than that in income tax.
I don’t believe I have ever said that some magic number of people in any given income class is the big difference. As a matter of fact, I believe I have been very clear that there are many reasons why it could work up there and not down here. Also, what criteria are those stats based on - I notice that your percentage for poverty cite also says that “poverty has increased among new immigrants, aboriginals and single mothers since 1980” and that new immigrants can expect to earn “a lot less”. This seems to indicate a rather mobile lower class in Canada, whereas among those living in poverty in the US we tend to have generations repeating it. I dunno about our new immigrants, or our “aboriginals”. Anyway, the point is that using just one site isn’t a good way to decide if something as major as installing a UHC in the US is a good or bad idea.
It’s nice that you are “sure” that you are going to be able to get and keep a good job after the taxpayers in your country have paid for you to obtain an advanced education as well as your healthcare. God forbid that your parents, your “solidly middle class” parents with no tax worries, pay for any of their child’s expenses. Of course, except for the healthcare we have that here too - we pay taxes so peoples children can go to college, but here that PhD might not equal a good job so the taxpayer may never see a return for that investment. I guess it might be “fair” if the taxpayer had paid to educate my husband, but back then they didn’t. Not that I think that parents should be having children that they expect that the taxpayer should pay to send to college…
Anyway, you are still sidestepping most of my response to your question. I have a feeling it is because you don’t know any of the answers, you just think that because the UHC works for you, it must work for everyone, everywhere.
How much time have you actually spent looking for cites, curlcoat?
Compare that time to the amount of time you spend rambling about how you’ll be driven into the poor house yet zero actual evidence to back this up. You’ve made hundreds of posts on this issue. Hundreds! Who knows how many hours you’ve spent typing angry rants about your financial fears.
Why aren’t you making a serious effort to look for cites? Wouldn’t you be enormously relieved if you found out you wouldn’t be paying more money, or maybe even paying less? Wouldn’t you like to feel a little less bitter and fearful?
Conversely, if we’re all wrong and you’ll be paying more, wouldn’t you love to prove it to us and score some points in this long running argument?
She is not going to look for cites. Ever. When are you going to finally get that? :dubious:
She is not going to look for or give you any cites. She is just going to keep on ignoring you. Please…can we admit, finally, that she is very obviously and willfully and purposefully ignoring you?
She’s just going to keep insisting she is right.
It’s like I said in my recent pit of her…she’s either a troll or she’s so delusional that she’s willing to say she’s right over and over and over and over and over again–never giving up–until everyone else just gives up.
Either way, seems to me TPTB here should eventually do something about it.
You raise a very good point. It’s pretty futile. I just didn’t want her to “win” by sheer stubborn persistance. But that’s just an ego trap I’ve set for myself. The Terminator comparison made earlier was pretty accurate:
She can’t be bargained with. She can’t be reasoned with. She doesn’t feel pity or remorse. And she absolutely WILL NOT STOP, until everyone gives up and the thread is dead.
How is that sidestepping. I go to the pharmacy and find out that this new drug is more than I want to spend. A couple of days later, the dr comes up with another RX that has a generic so is only $10. I have no idea if it is the “same thing”, it is merely the same sort of drug - a muscle relaxer - for all I know, the original drug works better and/or has fewer side effects. I’m just not going to pay $50 more to find out.
I could easily get my healthcare cheaper, for a lower quality product.
Did I ever say that everyone is irresponsible? No, of course I didn’t - you are the one that likes to exaggerate. However, that does point up one of those issues that might cause private insurance companies to give it up - if there is a law that requires that they have to pay for X, no matter what the premium(s) is that has been paid in, how long do you think they will be able to stay in business?
What trainwreck? As for sympathy, I have that for those who don’t go about demanding that others pay their way. I give to those who are trying to take care of themselves.
If I considered myself the center of the universe, I’d be demanding things from others. However, all I am doing is trying to keep others from taking (even more) from me. And is it not “center of the universe” to say “you have more than I do, or those people - hand it over”?
THAT POST WAS NOT ADDRESSED TO YOU. It was posted in a thread about UHC. The fact that you feel the need to take it personally and respond to it as if it’s all about you is just so fucking typical. And sorry, I feel worse for the poor people who are paying 45% of their annual household salary for medical bills than the fucking insurance companies. THIS is an example of a middle class family being driven into poverty-- not by taxes to help the poor, but by shitty insurance coverage and high health care costs. These people are living your unfounded fears. Yet all you care about is the poor insurance companies. You’re a piece of work.
ETA: If the insurance companies are actually at risk to go out of business (cite?), then the public option becomes more viable. Cry me a river for the insurance companies.
I’ve reached the conclusion that when curlcoat dies, they’ll find millions of dollars in her mattress, and empty cat food cans and a spoon in her kitchen.