I’ll help out here, as it will be a while before our respondent can get back to you (but I’m sure she’ll get the last word in)
So, I will attempt to answer in the appropriate Curlcoat manner:
She planned perfectly. She married a rich guy from Orange County. Now if all those friggin’ welfare queens would get with the program and find themselves a sugar daddy, we can close this thread once and for all.
Right. And when people use words like “inner city” and “urban” they can claim they never said “black”, either, but everybody knows what is meant.
Wonder what would happen if your husband got some illness that required treatment that his insurance barely covered - my bet is you’d suddenly be a fan of the liberals and their evil UHC agenda.
Sir, the men haven’t worked in months!
Well… Force them!
All you see is a dollar amount and nothing else. No concept of cost of living, no concept of what might happen if that income suddenly stops, and obviously no concept of the tax burden the middle class is under. Particularly here, where the state already provides quite a bit of those handouts that you want to be available nationwide. Doesn’t the financial crisis here in California give you any clue about what might happen if all of these programs go national?
I have no irrational fear of poverty. Been there, done that - I have no desire to go back to it and I will mightily resent it if I become poor due to being forced to pay taxes to support people whose only contribution to society is to have children. That’s it - everything else is a projection of your bias. As is your assumption I have no compassion for those less fortunate.
Same damned what thing? Surprises?
Sheeeeit, fool - I’m considered middle class, and I don’t feel unduly burdened by taxes (though I sure as fuck did when I was lower class). Damn, here in the Bay Area even the sales tax is 9.5%, yet if I didn’t want to pay it I could move to a less expensive area. So could you, but I’m sure you’d find something else to bitch about if your cost of living went down.
I’d love to see you answer Meyer6’s questions - well, I would love it if I hadn’t already seen your “answers” in previous threads.
snerk Assumption, that’s good.
Huh? What dues have we failed to pay?
Not any more than any other SS recipient - less, since I will always get less per month since I filed early.
Uh, no, that would be you that had to have the last word - your exact words were “I’m going to say my piece, and then it’s over.” When I had the gall (:rolleyes:) to respond, you PM’d again and said if I responded again you’d report me to the mods. So, is it that you really don’t remember the truth or do you just prefer to remember things the way you like?
How does that work? Someone posts and magically locks me out from responding? Or, could it be, the reason I wasn’t the last one to post was because I lost interest? Nah, what fun would it be for you to think that?
I didn’t say it would. What I have said is that is one of the options that is discussed. You know, when you all say that you want to have a UHC like the UK or Canada?
A cite? For our income and bills? How could that be done?
I posted the average median income for your county. Your husband earns 50% more than that. That means that you’re quite a bit wealthier than those around you, despite your claims that Orange County is so expensive. Well, yeah, I’m sure it is, but you’re STILL making more than the vast majority of people who live around you. I have plenty of concept of cost of living-- you are still wealthy despite that. Sorry if that blows your image of yourself.
If that income suddenly stops, surely you’ve planned for that, right? Surely you have savings? Isn’t that what you’d tell anyone else under these circumstances? And as for the tax burden of the middle class-- I know more about it than you do, because… I’m actually middle class, babe. You’re the one who’s wealthy, remember?
It’s so hilarious that you contradict yourself within one sentence. Yes, you do have an irrational fear of poverty. You were asked for a cite that taxation for social programs has any chance in hell of putting a person with a six figure salary into poverty. We are all still waiting for that cite. There isn’t one. You make far too much money to be driven into destitution by UHC. Your worries are unfounded and based on your own neurosis. Seek help.
Yes, you did.
No, it isn’t.
None of the proposals in Congress says this.
I have no idea what the tax burden in those countries is, do you? (Tho I seem to remember that all of the rich people were leaving the UK at some point because their taxes were so high.) I also have no idea how many people they are supporting with their taxes, how much money they put into research. Nor do I know that they don’t have people “dying in the street” from preventable problems.
How much of a middle class do these countries have? How long have they had the UHCs and what if any private insurance countries did they have prior? What is their turn-away rate? What is included in that per capita health expenditure in your Wiki article? How much difference does malpractice insurance expenses make?
There are many things to look at other than “it works in these other countries”. And whether it actually works is also up to interpretation - for example the NHS in England is way in the hole despite being funded from general taxation. Nor do I think most folks in the US would want to wait 18 weeks for treatment.
I have no idea what would have happened had things taken a different path 20 odd years ago. OTOH, since I spent years living well below the poverty level and didn’t take any handouts then, I cannot imagine I’d have done so now if I wasn’t married to this husband. However, if for some bizarre reason I did, it would have been after 35+ years of working so I’d have paid into the system. The people that I am tired of supporting are those that pay little if anything into the system but take a lot out.
I worked until 9/07 so earned my pensions and IRAs for those 35+ years. I am still paying income tax to the fed and the state, as well as property tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc. Really, the only thing that I’m not paying are Social Security and Medicare.
Yeah, right.
Again, those things are not the subject here, nor does the average Joe seem to think that it’s a good idea for the wealthy, corporations and banks to attach a tax to the incomes of the working folk.
Wow, you’re not going to let this go, are you? I asked you to stop messaging me. You didn’t. I told you this was it, no more. You kept messaging me. At that point, yes, I said I’d contact the mods. That wasn’t the end of it either. How many times does someone have to ask you not to write back (nasty posts full of :rolleyes: and personal attacks) before you get the message? Two? Three? Four? How much abuse am I expected to take from you, honestly? You HAVE to have the last word. You’re still trying to have it now. You just can’t stand that I shut your mean-spirited tirades down over PM, you’re still sore about it, so you keep bringing it up, as if somehow I’m going to look bad because I asked you to stop messaging me and you didn’t, repeatedly. No, it makes you look like a psycho.
Several posters said that they would not stop posting to the thread until you did, specifically to thwart you from getting the last word, so a mod locked it. Doesn’t leave you much opportunity to get your word in edgewise, does it? And does lend credence to the idea that most people have the impression that you can’t ever let anything go.
Don’t you get that it’s patently insane to claim that taxes for social programs are going to drive you, with your six figure family income, into poverty? It’s not going to happen. Do you realize that you and your husband are in the upper echelons of earners in your county, so every-fucking-body else in Orange County who makes less than you but who pays federal taxes would be pushed over the edge first? The fact that this is not going to happen is just common sense. It’s pathological and delusional for you to claim otherwise. Give it up.
Easy. Scan copies of your husband’s pay stub (showing all deductions and withholdings), your Social Security check, and all of your bills. Post them to Flicker.
This would, of course, entail you relinquishing any feelings you may be harboring that the financial details of your life are none of our business. And if you were to do so, I, for one, would be VERY creeped out. 
Another approach might be to read Rubystreak’s request as asking you to provide well-defended numbers outlining how much a UHC program would cost, on the whole, and how much of that burden would come out of your (and your husband’s) personal pockets.
Mind you, all currently considered plans include in their assumptions the provision that household incomes that do not exceed $350K will bear no additional tax burden. If you choose to discard that assumption, please state your justification for doing so (something empirical would be preferred).
It will be perfectly understandable if your desire to leave vague the question of whether or not your household income meets the $350K mark prevents you from responding with complete candor.
Huh. And here I thought inner city meant, well, inner city and urban meant, yeah urban. But then I guess I don’t spend much time looking for hidden meanings or whatever it is you are doing.
Nope. I don’t change my opinions simply because it might benefit me or mine. But, if I did, how would that differ from the selfish views of those who think that others should pay for their healthcare?
AGAIN - if we moved to someplace where the cost of living was less, his salary would also be less. And since he is in a rather specialized area, there really aren’t that many places we could move to anyway.
You do understand that average median income and middle class income are not the same thing, right?
Simply because we have a higher income than the average illegal or recent immigrant (which makes up a large portion of our population) doesn’t mean that we are not hard hit by taxes and prices here. The average person here doesn’t pay near the taxes we do - you understand the logic of that, right? If you have a high percentage of poor people, the non-poor end up with more of the taxes because they are the ones that can pay.
Yes, and THAT is why I actively resist having yet another tax added for the government to waste most of and give the rest to folks whose only apparent contribution is to have children. After our mortgage, taxes are by far our biggest expense - the mortgage payments will stop in a few years, the taxes continue to climb. Since I have no definite way to project just how bad the tax bite will be in 10-20-30 years, all I can do is hope we have enough put by and resist all additional taxes.
Of course not, but whatever you want to believe.
Wait, weren’t you the one that was whining about how poor you are? Or was that Broomstick? For some reason, I cannot keep the two of you straight.
No, you said you wanted a cite “that the costs of UHC would cause your family, which has a six figure income, to lose its house and retirement fund, and cause you to go broke”. I still don’t know how I’m supposed to cite our income and out lay, as well as projected costs in the future.
I can’t remember what you are talking about here, but if you think I said something that I say I didn’t, all you have to do is provide a cite.
I am also responding to what people here say they want, which includes a blanket UHC such as they have in the UK and Canada. Since the current stuff in Congress doesn’t appear to be doing very well, it is possible that they will try a UK/Canada/whatever plan next. Or not, one can never tell what they will do.
You disputed my definition of middle class, saying that Orange County was so much more expensive. I cited the average median salary for Orange County. If you make 50% more than that, it’s safe to say that, for that county, you’re not middle class. But you can cling to that identity if you wish to. There’s no shame in being wealthy.
Your mantra, whenever anyone has to ask for help or falls on hard times, is that they didn’t plan adequately. I could dig up cites where you said just this, even when it was pointed out to you that it would be nearly impossible to plan adequately for a catastrophic illness. But I sense this will be futile and that you will deny it anyway.
I guess that’s supposed to be an insult, because you know damn well who I am. I am not poor. I am middle class. I pay my taxes just like you, but I still want everyone to have health care.
kaylasdad already outlined how you could prove it. Find a cite for how much UHC is projected to cost people in your tax bracket based on the plans currently being debated in Congress. Then tell us if that tax increase (if there is indeed any at all) will cause you to lose your house/retirement fund/go broke. It should not be hard to do this. But honestly, if you really think UHC is going to break your finances, you are completely irrational. It’s not going to happen. Your fears are absolutely without factual basis.
If the current watered down, toothless plans don’t pass, you think a Canada or UK style plan will? Not likely. Not even possible.
What, does he work out of your home? Haven’t you ever heard of commuting?
I have a co-worker who used to drive from Lake Elsinore to Santa Clarita every day before he was transferred to Anaheim. And of course, now he’s driving from Lake Elsinore to Anaheim (which is a big improvement).
Or is it your contention that for a place to actually count as having a “lower cost of living” it must be in an entirely different region of the country, beyond the practical range of even the most extreme of commuters? 'Cos I don’t buy that. In my book Santa Clarita has a highter cost of living than Lake Elsinore.
My office is 108.5 miles from my house. I don’t want to hear anyone complaining about ‘long commutes’. (Well, OK. I do telecommute twice a week.)
It wasn’t? Gee, there doesn’t seem to be a response to me after the post where you threatened to tattle to the mods…
Gee, I dunno. I get a PM full of personal attacks and lies and for some reason, I feel like writing back, many times in kind. Do you suppose that’s an uncommon response?
Uh, hon? I mentioned it once. You are the one that keeps harping on it.
The thread I was talking about was the “anything else you motherfuckers want” thread, which is not locked, has four posts after my last one which were basically just random insults, which is typical of the immature minds here in the Pit who cannot debate anything in an intelligent fashion for any length of time. In the hate children thread there are over 15 posts after my last one and it was locked because it had been resurrected after over two months of no posts, not because a mod wanted to keep me from getting the last word.
See, these are examples of why it is difficult for me to take anything you say seriously. You pick and chose, reinterpret, flat lie and just make shit up. All because you don’t agree with my opinions on universal healthcare. You harp on our income as if that is the be all and end all of whether or not we can afford anything. You cherry pick facts about this area and pretend you know what income is needed to live comfortably. You insist that there is nothing wrong with us doing without some things so that others can have things they want. Because you disagree with me, you easily believe all sorts of negative things about me, but cannot fathom that any of those working poor that need insurance could possibly be anything other than hard working folk being held down by the man.
I don’t care if you want to be a bleeding heart, just don’t expect that you can force, insult or trick me into believing you. You want me to agree with your opinion, act like an adult instead of a gradeschooler.
Get a room, you two.
What happens in PM stays in PM. Can we at least have that general practice?
Yeah, I do know what the tax burden is in Canada and the UK since have lived in both those places and currently live in Canada. I am a graduate student (thus I pay no taxes and the government pays me from a research scholarship fund. How do you like them apples?), but my parents are squarely in the middle class and probably in your age group and have absolutely no complaints about paying taxes for universal health care and the other social systems that support our society. They are certainly not in any immenant danger of losing their house or mortgage.
I will keep my eye out for people dying in the streets the next time I’m out and about, but I have never seen them so far. Despite the persistant belief that all Canadians and Britons wait indefinately for any health care, neither I nor anyone else in my family has ever had to wait any serious amount of time for necessary care. There is a triage system, so people with urgent situations get first dibs as it were, but the system seems to work pretty well. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but I am satisfied and I hear few complaints. In Britain you can even buy private health insurance on top of the NHS to get your ultra-special care.
Canada has had UHC since the 1960s - certainly a long time, but within memory for lots of people. There was apparently a lot of hue and cry about it at the time, but clearly it worked out pretty well. Some people will always fear change, I guess.
By your very own admission you were young and healthy when you were living in poverty previously. If you have all the health problems you claim to have surely you realize that your health care is costing more now. How would you be paying for that?