So, god jul og godt nytår to you too. (I am in Denmark now).
How the hell do they pronounce Christmas then?
I am a rabid, card carrying liberal atheist, and I am not offended by Xmas, or any other such celebrations. I rather I didn’t have to go through it (I hate the carols), and yet somehow manage to appreciate the vacation, the extra money and sometimes the gifts. And the food.
So I hope the Communists, er, I mean liberals 
don’t take away Christmas.
I prefer “Happy Holidays” or “Season’s Greetings,” as it’s more inclusive.
Generally I’m not offended by someone saying “Merry Christmas” instead, and I do it sometimes too in appreciation of the secular nature lots of people celebrate it with, but it is offensive if it’s offered in one of two ways:
*People speaking in an official capacity for a government-sponsored (tax dollars) institution, presuming they don’t also say similar greetings for all the other religious holidays as well. This includes displays on public grounds that also does not include representations from other belief systems or secular symbols. It’s a question of separation of church and state, which I take seriously. (And note I don’t care what they do on their own time, it’s the official capacity that makes it offensive.) Businesses can do it anyway they please, but I appreciate the ones that try to be inclusive more than ones who don’t, which may effect my shopping decisions.
*People who are clearly trying to be dicks about it. Someone who insists it has to be “Merry Christmas” and nothing else is just being offensive. If I say something other than “Merry Christmas” and they correct me or whatever, then they’re obviously trying to force their views onto the rest of the world. “Happy Holidays” and “Season’s Greetings” can be Christmas and New Years, which they presumably celebrate, or also include other religious holidays. If you are offended that people might include Christmas in with other holidays too, then you are the one with the problem. And that’s why the conservative offenderati complaining about a liberal War on Christmas are such hypocrites: they are the ones being whiny and wanting to force their views on other people.
Couldn’t have put it better myself. To that effect, here’s a popular hanukah song my Israeli elementary school teacher taught me. I hope hebrew text works…
מי ימלל גבורות ישראל
אותן מי ימנה?
הן בכל דור יקום הגיבור
גואל העם.
שמע בימים ההם בזמן הזה
מכבי מושיע ופודה
ובימינו כל עם ישראל .
יתאחד יקום ויגאל
very loose translation: who will count the mighty deeds of Israel? For every generation a mighty one will arise, a redeemer of the nation. Hark! In those days, at this time! A redeeming Maccabee savior. And in our days, the entire nation of Israel, shall unite, arise and be redeemed.
Now, the reason I find that song interesting, is because the very first line is a direct allusion to a chapter of Psalms “who will count the mighty deeds of the Lord?” Only “Lord” is replaced by “Israel”. In many ways, the Maccabees served as inspiration to the (mostly secular) leaders of the budding Zionist state of Israel, as Jewish warriors who fought off assimilation and built their own Jewish empire, rather than sitting around praying for redemption. It even probably had some appeal to religious Zionists who were sick of the notion of “passive Messianism”, that is, waiting around for some dude to lead them to the Promised Land.
And along those lines, Hanukkah in Israel is as much a secular-nationalist holiday today as it is a religious one.
Thank you for the answers. Out of curiosity how much are Israeli children taught about what kind of rulers the Maccabees became? About King Alexander Yanni’s exploits? And about how it was two Hasmonean brothers who eventually invited the Romans in because they couldn’t settle things between themselves?
Very little. Many Israelis never figure out Herod was a Hashmonai (if they even know who he was at all.) Let alone teaching people that the Hashmoanim were religious zealots of the worst kind, forcing their religious sensibilities on people who didn’t want them… But I digress.
And I think Hanukkah is such a big deal here because the kids have a week off school. So some parents have to take a vacation too. And the weather is never too bad to go out, but kind of iffy for outdoors activities, so all kinds of organized indoor activities spring up… pretty soon you have a whole Hanukkah “industry” “helping keep the kids busy” (and raking in tub-loads of money in the process.)
ETA: To actually address the original OP – nothing wrong with “Merry Christmas” in my book. I don’t hear it much (living in Israel), but certainly wish any Christians I know “Merry Christmas,” and don’t mind being wished the same in return.
It’s amusing, really, cause even classical rabbinic sources have almost nothing positive to say about the Hasmonean dynasty. The Talmud bashes them a bunch. But the inevitable mythology that surrounds a (commercialized) holiday won’t let our children be aware of that fact, anymore than it’ll let small Christian kids be aware that Santa is dead and never flew on reindeer.
The converting people thing, though, wasn’t a religious zealotry thing. It used to be standard practice to assimilate conquered peoples along with their land.
I don’t think Herod was a Hasmonean-- I know that he married one in order to proclaim himself King of the Jews (which worked, ending the Hasmonean Dynasty), but I believe his lineage was mixed. I could be wrong though, maybe the Jewish half was Hasmonean royalty (I suppose if true that’d lend legitimacy to his claims of rulership).
yo serious question though, any atheists on the board get annoyed by the whole “holiday spirit” thing? Like people everywhere changing their greeting from “hey” to “happy holidays” (or god forbid, merry christmas), and incessant Christmas music on the radio, and a random saxophonist I heard in grand central station playing Klezmer Hanukkah music? Because I feel like whoever decided that it was necessary to change “merry christmas” to “seasons greetings” to respect freedom of religion totally dissed you guys by ignoring freedom from religion.
I think you’re right – I believe he was an Edomite and not a Jew to begin with (or one of his recent forebears was.) Still, while he may have ended the dynasty, I would consider him part of it, by marriage.
And anything I got wrong here only serves to emphasize my answer above about how little we know about the whole dynasty, beyond the story of Hanukkah itself… :o
Hey, I can answer this one, too! 
No, it doesn’t bother me, and for the same reason “Merry Christmas” doesn’t bother me as a (cultural) Jew – the wisher is wishing me what they feel is a good wish on their part; why should I be offended? Not to mention that I’m perfectly happy celebrating either or both holidays depending on where I am at the time, including attending Christmas Mass at least once or twice in my life, but in a secular mindset of enjoying the event as a cultural one.
Also, in all, I suspect “Merry Christmas” carries about as much religious weight for most people as “Happy 4th of July,” or “Happy Birthday!” That is to say, none.
Agnostic brought up in a nominally Christian tradition here.
If someone were to wish me a happy Hannukah or have a good Ramadan whatever I’d be quite pleased at the well wishing from someone who was a believer in a different doctrine to me.
I’m going to have to disagree with the majority here. It amazes me sometimes how indescribably presumptuous people can be in their interactions with others. It’s as though they have no regard for those with differing opinions.
As it happens, this morning at work, my officemate brought in a pecan pie that she’d made over the holidays, and told me to have a piece. Not “asked”, told. Now, I don’t like pecan pie, and I’m hardly alone in that opinion; a quick poll of my coworkers will tell you that the split is about 50-50 between liking and disliking it. This information was freely available for the asking, but did she choose to educate herself? Not at all. She just started right in with “hey Roland, have a piece of pie,” as if she couldn’t conceive that anyone would possibly have a distaste for her chosen confection. What gall!
Needless to say, I reminded her that others may not agree with her choice of dessert, and to be mindful of my wishes in the future. I viewed it as a teaching moment.
[/sarcasm]
It’s just a pleasantry, for crying out loud. It’s an expression of warm wishes for the holiday season; the wintertime version of “have a nice day”. And even if the speaker does intend a religious aspect to the comment, well, if you don’t like Christianity or pecan pie, simply thank the person for their kind offer and go about your business. Why go out of your way to take offense to someone’s goodwill?
ETA: Agnostic civil libertarian, for those keeping track at home.
Atheist checking in. I must have said “Merry Christmas” a hundred times this past week. I don’t have a problem with it.
I’m not sure if this point has already been brought up (just skimmed to the end here), but what gets me in a twist is when someone (or more often, some store) says, “Happy Holidays” or “Seasons Greetings” and then catch shit for ***not ***saying “Merry Christmas.”
Where do these people get off telling others how to greet people during whatever holiday season they choose to celebrate, or acknowledge, or whatever?
Yes, but not for any religious reasons but rather for the same reason it bothers so many people, both religious and secular - the sheer oppressive, intensely commercialized ubiquity of it all. I don’t freak out about it, but I do grumble a bit and occasionally feign a more serious scrooge-like attitude.
This, more than anything else, is a source of irritation. Not so much the radio, which I can avoid. But piped in every single business establishment in a continuous loop. Like say my favorite Thai restaurant where I’m trying to have lunch. It grates on my nerves.
All that said I am an atheist whose atheist AND Marxist parents celebrated and still do celebrate Christmas every year. Heck they even gave us baskets of chocolate for Easter. It’s secular family tradition and I’ve never been in the least offended by “Merry Christmas”, “Happy Holidays” or any permutation thereof.
My atheistic self took my very Lutheran gramma to Christmas Eve services and then we ate dinner at a Somali place in town because it was the only restaurant open.
The Muslim staff wished us a Merry Christmas as we left.
I kinda roll my eyes at anyone who gets cranked out of shape over cultural niceties.
Today I absent-mindedly asked a friend if he’d had a good Christmas. Only after the words were out of my mouth did I remember that this guy is Jewish.
His jovial reply: “Hey, it was a day off!”
Which I thought was pretty good.