This last one is too much. McNabb had TO to throw to among others. He has had plenty of receivers as good as Toomer or Shockey.
The conversation was McNabb vs Eli as far I can tell. It appears you are trying to change it.
However, it doesn’t matter, neither is great QB (yet) and Eli’s **Giants **still make me feel much better about 4th quarter deficits than I have ever felt is 34 years of watching the Giants.
Scary Kerry was a flat-out stud when it came to 4th quarter comebacks.
Hey this isn’t about cold hard stats, this is about Eli makes me believe they can come back in important games.
I’m trying to find the comeback stats and am not having any luck. I found a dead link to a FO article that has some listed, but I can’t find that article at FO and the numbers are disputed by the MB thread they were posted to with the dead link.
It’s only fair to mention that in that list, Donovan McNabb was just behind Kerry Collins in the top 10 list of QB comebacks since 1996.
EDIT: Here it is, though it was written before the 2006 season so it doesn’t include most of Eli’s career.
Table 1. Top 10 quarterbacks at comebacks since 1996
Rank Quarterback Wins Losses
1 Jake Plummer 19 28
2 Peyton Manning 19 29
2 Vinny Testaverde 19 29
4 Tom Brady 13 8
5 Jon Kitna 15 23
6 Kerry Collins 17 30
7 Donovan McNabb 12 15
8 Marc Bulger 10 5
9 Jake Delhomme 10 12
9 Jay Fiedler 10 12
That’s the feeling I got from Scary Kerry. I know you hated those teams, but IMO that’s wholly irrational. They were really quite good.
This is absurd. Are you being serious? Do you realize TO played on the Eagles for exactly one and a half seasons? McNabb has played 9, it isn’t like TO was there for his entire career. And what “others” could you possibly be talking about? Freddie Mitchell? James Thrash? Todd Pinkston? Reggie Brown? Who else did he have, exactly, that was anywhere near Amani Toomer or Jeremy Shockey? “Among others” my ass.
And who those two QBs throw to is completely irrelevant? Seriously? I’m not trying to change the argument, I’m trying to expand on it. If McNabb had even ONE more receiver of All-Pro caliber over the last eight years, we’d be talking about him a lot differently. He had TO for one full season, and he led his team to a 13-1 record (before sitting out the final two games after locking up the NFC East) and one of the statistically greatest seasons by a QB ever. That Eli gets to throw to Plaxico Burress, and Amani Toomer, and got to throw to Shockey, is a big advantage over McNabb. This is significant. A lot of the arguments for Eli in this thread are precisely due to Burress being such a significant threat to defenses, and such an intimidating physical presence. Donovan McNabb has had one season of a receiver who could consistently create separation, and Donovan took that team to the Super Bowl. Give him someone like Plaxico for more than a season and those “close and late” and “+/- 7pts” statistics would look a lot different.
Love to see Toomer get some love. He’s not particularly strong or fast, but he consistently makes crazy circus toe-tap catches on the sideline and in the endzone. McNabb has definitely never had a guy like that, and you’re right that TO was only there for a very short time. Not having receivers never hurt Tom Brady’s ability to win championships, but Tom Brady is on another level. McNabb is kind of an Elway-lite, in the same way the 2000s Eagles were a Buffalo-lite.
What happened to the Cowboys today? TO thinks he didn’t get the ball enough based on his postgame interview. Uh oh, is that a locker room cancer I smell? I better go get some popcorn. hehheh.
Nice job Redskins, who were clearly not ready for the season to start on opening day but have pulled it together quite nicely since then.
Hey Eagles, what the hell? You lost to a team outside of the division? Oh the shame.
To start, there is no argument anyone can ever make that would put McNabb on the level of Brady. I want to make sure it’s clear that I’m not trying to imply that before I start. But in McNabb’s defense, he has done some amazing things with the literal crappile of receivers he has had in his career. I saw a statistic last year (no cite, sorry, tried to find it but couldn’t) that McNabb is second all-time in career TD-INT ratio. And when he DID have a high quality target to throw to, he had a better season than all but one of Brady’s (excluding the Super Bowls, of course, but he did make it there). So again, we’d be talking about McNabb as a future Hall of Famer had he had another All Pro caliber WR on the roster.
Toomer is steady. He always seems to get open, and when the Giants need a first down or a score late in the half or in the game, Eli can throw a fade to a 6’4" Plaxico or a slant to Toomer. Toomer is one of those guys that always creates separation, and McNabb has never had that. Even TO could be muscled around a little on the line. I can’t stress enough how much this has hurt Philly in the last six to eight years.
Funny thing about that game. I watched the second half, and checked some stats. The Eagles absolutely dominated Chicago. I honestly can’t comprehend how Chicago won that game. The Eagles won the turnover battle, they won time of possession, and had more sacks. They won total yards, passing yards, and rushing yards. The Bears didn’t get a single first down in the entire third quarter, and yet still won?
So what happened? Well, the Eagles were short All Pro Brian Westbrook, which is why the offense stalled against a mediocre Bears defense. They were short TE LJ Smith, which is why the Eagles were 2 of 13 on third down. They were also short All Pro monster RG Shaun Andrews, which is why late in the 4th quarter and down by 4, the Eagles were stuffed three times within the 3 on running plays. This is a crushing loss for the Eagles in a head-scratcher game they very easily should have won. With the Cowgirls losing, you can’t miss these opportunities.
I don’t think anyone could argue that. I certainly won’t. That’s why I called him “kind of an Elway-lite”, in that he has often had to do without receivers and yet still managed some impressive postseason runs.
I was wondering why Reid didn’t let McNabb throw on the goal line at the end of the game. I was looking forward to seeing if he could come up with a clutch game-winning TD, but he wasn’t even given a chance. Boooo!
That TD-Int ratio stat is totally believable, btw. McNabb has never thrown many picks. This is what you would expect in a WCO where the most active receiver is a RB who gets 70 swing passes a season, and your WRs rarely crack 50. Most Ints come from throwing the ball down the field, which is not what the Eagles are about.
No, that wasn’t it. The Bears were without Tommie Harris and lost #1 WR Brandon Lloyd and #1 CB Charles Tillman during the game, injuries are a cop out. Certainly losing Westbrook was big, but you’re overlooking Special Teams. The Bears pretty much owned the Eagles in that facet. The Eagles were pinned at or inside the 20 on 7 of 16 drives and 3 of the drives stared outside the twenty were following Bears turnovers. The Eagles missed 2 FGs giving the Bears good field position. The Bears started 6 drives outside of their own 40 yard line.
Still, the Bears once again lost the chess match over half-time adjustments. We looked good in the first half and had the Eagles defense on it’s heels, then as the second half began it was clear that the Eagles coaches had adjusted and the Bears had done nothing. The defense manned up and out muscled the Eagles but that game should never have come down to that.
Boy, that felt good. I was so nervous about the Cowboys coming back and winning that game. Once that onside kick attempt sailed out of bounds I had to take a deep breath. I’d been holding my breath and not even realized it.
While watching a little of the Eagles-Bears game last night, I realized that Jason Campbell reminds me of a young McNabb. A mobile, strong QB, but still learning the West Coast scheme. Next up is a trip to Philly, we’ll see how they compare head-to-head then.
I had fun rooting for the Bears last night and they came through. I couldn’t quite bring myself to root for the Skins, but I am happy they beat Dallas.
I missed every game but Philly@Bears unfortunately, but that was a very good one, especially the goal line stomp at the end.
A Giants fan talking about a wide receiver who is a potential locker room cancer on another team? That is rich.
What, Plaxico? He’s no cancer, he just a bit of muscle ache. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
When was the last time you heard a Giants wide receiver lob passive-aggressive digs at his quarterback? Or say anything publicly about the QB, for that matter?
This is Plax’s second suspension for missing meetings. The first lasted for the first quarter against the Chargers back in 2005. This one is a full game. He is not calling out any teammates or the coaching staff, nor has he ever. That was Tiki and Shockey’s job. Neither of which were wide receivers.
Terrell Owens, on the other hand, has now publicly called out three of his quarterbacks.
Was the skins +11.5 line pretty screwy?
I kept thinking all week that it was too big a line, that the NFC east games tend to play it close and the Cowboys aren’t that much better than the skins, but I decided I didn’t know the NFC east well enough to just bet it straight up, although I did put it on 3 parlays, one of which I won.
I’m wondering if there’s a huge loyal group of Cowboy bettors out there that skews the line in a way favorable to their opponents.
No, I think that’s just a result of public opinion being all over the Cowboys’ jocks this year. OTOH, I’ve heard from a few sports bettors I respect that the Steelers are often overpriced by the spread for that reason – lots of Steelers fans out there.
Just to keep this going, here’s an update on the respective site’s power rankings:
ESPN:
1 - Giants (2)
3 - Cowboys (1)
6 - Redskins (15)
9 - Eagles (3)
USA Today
1 - Giants (2)
4 - Cowboys (1)
5 - Redskins (12)
12 - Eagles (3)
Yahoo Sports
1 - Giants (2)
4 - Redskins (12)
5 - Cowboys (1)
14 - Eagles (5)
CBS Sportsline:
1 - Giants (2)
4 - Redskins (12)
5 - Cowboys (1)
14 - Eagles (5)
Sporting News
2 - Giants (2)
4 - Redskins (14)
5 - Cowboys (1)
16 - Eagles (7)
Fox:
1 - Giants (1)
2 - Redskins (14)
3- Cowboys (2)
12 - Eagles (9)
As a Giants fan, this was a gloriously beautiful weekend. Seeing the two biggest douche crews in the league get stuffed warmed me to the core.
Thank you for the updates and I agree of course.
Look at that anti-Dallas media bias. Washington beat Dallas at Texas Stadium and now these media elites think Washington is somehow “better” than Dallas.
