Like I said, Franchise tackles.
(Duplicate post erased. There was a duplicate post in the first place because THIS FUCKING BOARD IS A PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT RUN BY DROOLING INCOMPETENT MORONS.)
You’ve reduced your original statement to be meaningless. Franchise tackles get drafted and stay in one place until something goes wrong because you are definining franchise tackles as those players who get drafted and stay in one place until something goes wrong.
Pretty much the No True Scotsman fallacy.
That’s not really true… there are plenty of mediocre tackles who are drafted in one place and play their career there. “Franchise” is kind of an overused term which basically means you’re one of the best at certain valuable positions. I’ve never heard Petitgout’s name mentioned in terms of being a franchise tackle.
Joe Thomas has been talked about as one and I’m pretty surprised with him. I only watched his bowl game and in it he seemed like a technician who lacked strength and didn’t play with heart, but he’s been almost the opposite during this season, where he’s been surprisingly good for a rookie LT (even Ogden started out at left guard), dominant at times.
The Shaun Rogers resign thing surprised me and a lot of fans aren’t happy with it. Romeo must be convinced he can get the guy to play. He had a cap hit for us of something like 4, 5, and 7 million in his last years, and I thought we were going to let him play it out. This deal makes him cheaper in the near term, but more expensive towards the end. But… without the new deal, we could’ve cut him without penalty. I’m still iffy about the whole thing. I’m much more enthusiastic about Corey Williams.
Derek Anderson’s contract is much more managable than it was reported. They said 14m guaranteed, but that counts roster bonuses, which aren’t guaranteed. He only has a 7m signing bonus, and he has a 5m roster bonus due next year. So he’ll have to play well to earn that, and he’s easily tradable.
The Browns have given the impression of wasteful spending with big FA contracts these last few years, but we’ve been one of the leading teams in terms of cap room during all those years, and next year we’re going to have 20-30m again. Aside from one or two players, the core of this team is locked up through 2010-2011.
Ellis Dee, I understand your frustration, but please keep complaints about the Board administration in the Pit.
It’s not a fallacy. Luke Petitgout isn’t a franchise tackle. Above average? Yeah. Franchise tackle? Only because there are so few completely dominant tackles out there.
Franchise tackles very rarely hit free agency. Same with true franchise cornerbacks.
I’m betting if the Pack starts out 2-3 or so and everyone is playing well but Rogers, he’ll be back.
Yes, but that wasn’t the argument you were trying to make. You were saying that “franchise” tackles were drafted high and stayed with their team forever. The clear implication that highly rated and early projected tackles do not fall in the draft because team know they will have them forever and that they are reliably good. This simply isn’t true. There are plenty of examples of highly rated tackles, all labeled as franchise guys before the draft, who both fell out of the top 5 and who either flopped or were traded/cut after their rookie contracts ran out.
I’d say they are a little more reliable than elite WR and RB prospects, but they aren’t such rarities that teams draft them in spite of all else.
Ha ha. I am actually pretty tired of having my team being labelled as the poster child for malfeasance in the NFL. There were plenty of other players on other teams (even multiple players, like in San Diego…Kiel, Foley ((shot by the police!)) and RoidMerriman) that committed far more egregious acts (Tank in CHI, KC’s DE multiple-DUI offender who’s name escapes me now) and suffered LESS substantial punishment from the league as well as flying under the sports media radar.
Why?
Because it’s easy to pick on the Bengals because they were so bad for so long.
Jared Allen.
Think that’s bad? Leonard Little of the Rams killed someone while DUI and he got a 4-game suspension, IIRC - yet Pacman Jones and Odell Thurman got a year.
Goodell is not good at placing value judgments on criminal offenses (or accusations).
Not quite. I was saying that franchise tackles tend to stay with their team forever. People draft good tackles high to try and get one. This is important because there are so relatively few. In my opinion, Jake Long could very well be a franchise tackle, and is worthy of a top three pick. Yes, sometimes tackles that get drafted very highly, like Robert Gallery, are busts.
I may have mis-stated what I was saying in my attempt to hold two conversations simultaneously, but this is what I was attempting to get across.
Nib High football rules!
The thing is, Robert Gallery was never a franchise tackle. He was the very best of an extremely weak looking OT class in a fairly weak FA year for OL. He wasn’t drafted high because he was one of the best, he was drafted high because he was the best of what was available, so if you needed a OT badly looks at Oakland you had to take a shot that he could live up to his potential. Unfortunatly for Oakland you also needed someone who could coach him to that level and they have not had that either.
This is also very true. I haven’t looked, but franchise quarterbacks in the league might outnumber the franchise tackles. You can also argue that an amazing tackle (or two!) makes your quarterback that much better.
I don’t agree with this assessment. Yes, tackles were scarce that year, but every single person who evaluated Gallery had him pegged as one of the best we’d seen in years and saw no apparent weaknesses in his game. To say he was soft and was overvalued is a bit of a retcon. In retrospect that’s clear, but at the time he was every bit the prospect that Jake Long is this year. And there’s not reason Long couldn’t be just as big a flop.
Actually Odell got two for what amounted to a couple missed drug tests and a DUI.
He was already serving a suspension when he got the DUI, GODell extended it for the remainder of the 2006 season, and then refused to reinstate him for the 2007 season. I want to believe that GODell is being fair but when he reduces suspensions for Jared Allen, gave Little a ridiculously short suspension for KILLING someone while under the influence, allowed Tank to play in the Superbowl last year…I just don’t see how that is fair.
I agree. Every publication I read that year had Gallery as much of a “can’t miss” prospect at tackle as you can get.
Shades of Marinovich…
Gallery has to get a little bit of a break for going to the most dysfunctional team in the NFL (he’s had at least 4 OL coaches) . Anywhere else, and he might be an OK player. He’ s been moved to guard and seems to be doing better.
I think Long might be closer to Gallery than Thomas. He won’t have the misfortune of going to the Raiders, but I could see him potentially being an RT or guard in a few years.
Definitely disagree with this also. Every pundit was looking at him as the next Orlando Pace.
For once, the Raiders wasted a pick on a player who geniunely seemed worthy of it at the time.
This is a very fair point. Were Gallery to be cut I bet there’d be teams pounding down the door to give him another shot on a decent team with a competent line coach. He basically got tossed into the fire and simply hasn’t responded.
Similar situation to what happened with Marc Columbo. He was asked to play in his rookie season and battled injuries and looked like a bust. After the Bears cut him and he went to Dallas he found his stride and has been a great player. The Bears had a sound system in place, so they are different from the Raiders in that, but injuries aside it seems that his being cut motivated him and the change of scenery and fresh start allowed him to develop with less pressure. No reason a similar scenario couldn’t happen with Gallery.
This paragraph from Wikipedia seems relevant and perhaps the perception of how much of a bust he’s been could be overstated.
I agree with the “Gallery maybe getting some slack being a Raider” part…not so sure about Long.
As always, the draft remains and will remain as a crapshoot, despite college careers, combine workouts, draft status, etc.
Some guys just don’t work out in the NFL, just as often as a 7th rounder makes a team and actually contributes (TJ Houshmanzadeh).