NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft)

The Game Room
261

Gallery is every bit as bad as you’ve heard. He doesn’t give up that many sacks, but a) the Raiders have run the ball a lot while he’s been there, and b) under Art Shell and Lane Kiffin, they’ve run a short-drop pass offense. Also, he was flagged for something like 25 false starts during his first two seasons. That’s Flozell Adams territory (Adams is a good tackle but just doesn’t seem to understand the concept of a snap count).

Unless you’ve actually watched him you can’t understand how poor his pass blocking is. He just isn’t quick enough to get his hands on speed rushers, so even if they aren’t sacking the quarterback every time, they’re almost always at least getting pressure from his side.

The move to guard made perfect sense because it plays to what he CAN do- use his mountainous physique to move defenders off the line.

I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot, per se; some teams draft well year in and year out - Philadelphia, New England, St. Louis, Baltimore (well, on defense), and Buffalo.

Yes, really - Buffalo. The Bills have been bad for most of the decade, but that’s due almost entirely to the fact that as soon as a player makes a name for himself, he gets the hell out of Buffalo. Mostly that’s because Ralph Wilson is cheap. Even so, for every Pro Bowler that leaves, they always find some guy in the draft to replace him.

The list of players who’ve left the Bills for big free-agent deals (or who were traded away so the Bills wouldn’t have to pay them) is ludicrous.

262

Isn’t the draft fun?

263

Well, I disagree with your sentiment. No matter where a player is drafted, his NFL potential is immeasurable against his measureables.
Some guys suddenly are injury-prone, some just never perform to their draft status and are average/marginal players, some are as predicted and some are outright busts.

264

Case in point: Ricky Williams. He broke his foot the first two years he was in the league and was affixed with the “injury-prone” sticker. It’s wasn’t true (two freak ankle breakings) and he went on to be a very good runner…until he decided he liked weed more than playing football (which is cool…it’s his choice).

265

So I supposed you’d like to see this.

Ugh. I feel bad for Shaun Smith.

He talked openly and honestly about various things at a Browns backers banquet which someone from the message board I hang out on taped. Then he put them up briefly so that we (the message board users) could see it. Somehow profootballtalk saw it, and then rotoworld, and now its way all the way to yahoo…

266

But that’s only because you’re defining a “franchise tackle” as the ones who tend to stay with their team forever.

And I completely disagree that “franchise cornerbacks” stay with their teams. So-called “shutdown” cornerbacks change teams like they change underwear.

267

Nope. It’s by design that they stay with their team.
Really, the problem with shutdown cornerbacks, other than the fact that they overuse that term way too much, is that the new offensive rules make playing cornerback a living nightmare.

268

Here’s an old but interesting article in support of your franchise tackle ideas. Some crazy stats in there.

That’s a given; I don’t think anyone would disagree with any of that. Since you already know all that, I’m wondering why you said this:

The same is absolutely not true with cornerbacks.

269

Who was the last franchise cornerback to hit free agency? Fred Smoot? Charles Woodson is as close as you can come, I think.
Really, with one of those high draft pick tackles, the worst thing that happens to them (barring injury) is moving to guard, where they tend to do better, like Robert Gallery. Of course, for an opposing stance, you’ve got Damien Woody who played guard for the Lions and was pressed into playing tackle and did a very good job.

Of course, we got rid of him in free agency.

270

Fred Smoot, Charles Woodson, Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Dre Bly/Champ Bailey (trade), Ty Law (from Pats to Jets - obviously there’s not much left of him now), Asante Samuel, Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor…

271

Here are the Lions’ free agent acquisitions:

Retained Aveion Cason (Scouts Inc. grade = 53)
Retained Travis Fisher (Scouts Inc. grade = 65)
Signed Michael Gaines from the Bills (Scouts Inc. grade = 60)
Retained John Owens (Scouts Inc. grade = 49)
Signed Dwight Smith from the Vikings (Scouts Inc. grade = 66)
Retained Keith Smith (Scouts Inc. grade = 59)
Signed Chuck Darby from the Seahawks (Scouts Inc. grade = 64)

Go Lions!

yes, these grades are out of 100. please shoot me.

272

Actually, Smith would be an instant upgrade on almost any team. His problem was that he spent the first half of his career trying to be a cornerback, rather than a safety (he was a corner in college and a nickelback for the first two years of his career, with the Bucs).

He’s an excellent coverage safety, though. You’ll see him knock the tar out of at least one receiver every game, and he rarely gives up big plays. He also picks off a lot of passes.

I simply can’t understand why the Vikings let him to in order to sign a worse player for more money…

Travis Fisher is a solid corner whose career with the Rams was derailed by injuries. If he can get/stay healthy, he’s a very good player.

273

Smoot isn’t a franchise cornerback (he’s solid and physical, but not elite). He’s rated as a 63 by Scouts Inc.
Charles Woodson is possibly the only one.
Nate Clements is a good one. I forgot about him. He’s the third highest rated cornerback according to Scouts Inc. (a grade of 82)
Winfield is also a good one. The 4th best rated cornerback (rated 81).
Dre Bly was traded. That doesn’t count.
Same with Champ Bailey.
Ty Law was an injury risk and was deemed as unnecessary (although he had a damn good year the first year)
Asante Samuel is very overrated, but we’ll see about him this coming year or two.
Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor also aren’t so shabby, or at least, they weren’t when they were playing for the Eagles. Their careers dropped when they left Philly.

Woodson, Clements, and Winfield are the three that I’d say that are elite that left via free agency. Imagine how good the Bills’ secondary might have been if they ponied up the bucks.

274

I don’t have a problem with Dwight Smith, but Rod Marinelli has a love affair with former Buccaneers. That scares me mildly.

Dwight Smith is pretty much like Kevin Kaesviharn. (Man, that guy’s name is HARD to spell.)

275

Ah, but it doesn’t matter how you rate them - or Scouts Inc., for that matter. What matters is whether someone in the league thought highly of these players “franchise”-type money, and all of them got it somewhere.

Besides, the trades should definitely count, since the original point in dispute was whether franchise cornerbacks change teams often, not whether they hit free agency.

276

It’s not about money at all. It was about skill. That’s what the discussion was about the entire time. Out of those guys, Champ Bailey and Nate Clemens are making “franchise type” money.

No, the trades don’t count because I expressly talked only about free agency before. I know that Bailey and Bly were traded. That’s why I didn’t count the trades.

277

But your grade is subjective. Contracts aren’t.

Anyway, Winfield is certainly making franchise money - $35 million over five years, which made him the second highest-paid corner at the time. Samuel got 6 years and 57 million - just a hair under Clements’ $80 million over eight years, and with the same amount ($20 million) guaranteed.

278

Are the scouts inc. grades insider info, or can you get them for free somewhere? I’m curious to see their ratings.

279

Well, it’s not my grade. It’s a grade assigned from people that supposedly know things that we mortals can’t know.

7 million a year isn’t bad cash. I don’t know if it speaks more for the scarcity at the position or for his overall skill or possibly both.

I’m not sold on Asante Samuel still. I need to see him play another year or so in someone else’s system.

280

It’s Insider info. I love the Insider soooooooooooooooo much.

Here’s the Scouts Inc. grading scale:
90-100: Elite Player
Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. … Premier NFL player who has all the skills to consistently play at a championship level. … Rates as one of the top players at his position in the league.

80-89: Outstanding Player
Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL. … A feature player who has an impact on the outcome of the game. … Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week in and week out.

70-79: Good Starter
Solid starter who is close to being an outstanding player. … Has few weaknesses and usually will win his individual matchup but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the league.

60-69: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but not a dominant player against the better players he faces on a weekly basis. … Gives great effort and teams are glad to have him, but he may or may not go to the next level.

50-59: Good Backup
This is a player who is really on the bubble and only starts because of a deficiency at the position. … He lacks complete overall skills, and although he will battle, he will hinder his team’s ability to play at a championship level if he is forced to be in the starting lineup consistently over a 16-game season. Teams don’t mind having him on the roster but are always looking to upgrade.

40-49: Below Average Backup/Core Special Teamers
Strictly a backup player who is not capable of starting. If forced to, he is only a short-term fix. … He might make the roster because of special-teams contributions or experience. … He is the type of player teams consistently look to replace with an upgrade. … He always will be a borderline roster player.

30: Developmental Player
Players with this grade have very little film to evaluate. Such players might flash potential in the preseason but don’t have any regular-season performances to judge. they usually have very little experience but have to be tracked due to developmental potential.

20: Rookie (Post Draft)
No professional tape to evaluate. These players will have an evaluation based on their college tape, but we will not put a new grade on them until after their rookie seasons. They will carry the 20 grade throughout their first NFL season.

10: Evaluation in Process
Need more information

PM me if you want your team’s evaluations or a certain player’s evaluations.