NFL offseason discussion (up to but not including draft)

The Game Room
21

[QUOTE=Jimmy Chitwood]
That would be a fantastic deal for the Giants, especially in terms of matching up with divisional opponents. I think the Falcons could probably get more for Hall if they wanted to, though.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I saw on tonight’s SportsCenter – as I sit here buried under almost a foot of snow – John Clayton talking about how there are at least 3 or 4 teams interested in the same deal for Hall. Since the Giants have the last pick, everyone else’s deal is sweeter for Atlanta. Thus there’s no way to get Hall straight up. Clayton mentioned they could try to toss in a 3rd rounder, but I’m not down with spending multiple picks on any one player. (Other than a franchise QB, of course.)

Absolutely. The Giants got crushed by injuries in 2003, resulting in a 4-12 record, a fired coach, and the dawning of the Eli era. Injuries can take out any team, and unfortunately for the Rams, 2007 was their turn in the barrel.

22

I got everyone beat…I’m a Dolphins fan. When your team is absolute shit, there’s only one way to go, and that is up (or so I hope). And when your team is 1-15, the most exciting time of year is the draft.

#1 pick: They have so many holes, it’s hard to know what to do with it. Ideally, they could trade down to a mid-first and pick up some later picks too. But, ever since Jimmy Johnson’s Cowboys raped the Minnesotta Vikings in exchange for Herschel Walker, I just don’t think a blockbuster pick swap is ever going to be forthcoming.

In that light, I think the best hope is to pick the best player out there; I’m hoping for LSU’s Glen Dorsey. Maybe a stud defensive lineman would entice Jason Taylor to stick it out for another few years.

23

[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
I got everyone beat…I’m a Dolphins fan. When your team is absolute shit, there’s only one way to go, and that is up (or so I hope). And when your team is 1-15, the most exciting time of year is the draft.

#1 pick: They have so many holes, it’s hard to know what to do with it. Ideally, they could trade down to a mid-first and pick up some later picks too. But, ever since Jimmy Johnson’s Cowboys raped the Minnesotta Vikings in exchange for Herschel Walker, I just don’t think a blockbuster pick swap is ever going to be forthcoming.

In that light, I think the best hope is to pick the best player out there; I’m hoping for LSU’s Glen Dorsey. Maybe a stud defensive lineman would entice Jason Taylor to stick it out for another few years.
[/QUOTE]

You guys need some playmakers on offense, especially a QB. And a WR.

24

[QUOTE=Ellis Dee]
Yeah, I saw on tonight’s SportsCenter – as I sit here buried under almost a foot of snow – John Clayton talking about how there are at least 3 or 4 teams interested in the same deal for Hall. Since the Giants have the last pick, everyone else’s deal is sweeter for Atlanta. Thus there’s no way to get Hall straight up. Clayton mentioned they could try to toss in a 3rd rounder, but I’m not down with spending multiple picks on any one player. (Other than a franchise QB, of course.)Absolutely. The Giants got crushed by injuries in 2003, resulting in a 4-12 record, a fired coach, and the dawning of the Eli era. Injuries can take out any team, and unfortunately for the Rams, 2007 was their turn in the barrel.
[/QUOTE]

It’s so funny to me that Coughlin was the whipping boy in 2006…with the Tiki episode…and then the “disciplinarian” coach goes on to win the SB over a heavily favored opponent. Sweet justice.

25

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
The fans are right to not like Anderson, because his receivers bail him out, and he isn’t very good. His stats were completely padded against my team (Bengals) in that first meeting.

[/QUOTE]

Padded how? The game was in contention until the last drive, it’s not like they were running up the score. Padded by getting to play against a terrible defense? Sure, but there are lots of terrible pass defenses and 5 TDs is still fairly rare. Why should his accomplishment count against him?

I’m not Derek Anderson’s biggest fan, and he is in a positive situation, but seriously, how often do you see a young kid put up 3800 yards and 29 TDs in their first season as a starter? And for that matter, he wasn’t even the starter at the beginning of the season, didn’t get all the starter’s reps in preseason/practice, etc. People are willing to write this 24 year old kid off as terrible already. Bizarre.

26

To reference the OP, Philly has made a living defensively for nearly a decade now by playing man-to-man with two really good corners, thus freeing up the entire center of the defense for awkward and creative blitz packages. Hell, Philadelphia and Jim Johnson are essentially synonyms for aggressive blitzing schemes. And where did the Giant’s defensive coordinator come from?

But I don’t understand, what happened to Sam Madison? Wasn’t he good? Would Hall be that much of an improvement? I didn’t see enough of the Giants to know… but I do know they create a lot of pressure from their two defensive ends, and to match that with the ability to be more aggressive in passing situations because of two really good corners would be something I don’t want to even think about.

27

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
People are willing to write this 24 year old kid off as terrible already. Bizarre.
[/QUOTE]

Much like how Tony Romo had been ‘figured out’ at the end of last year. It’s even worse on the Browns because if Anderson turns out to be good, they’ve ‘blown’ two first round picks on a back up QB. Unless they can pull a Steve Walsh with Quinn.

An interesting rumor I heard was Dallas sending Carpenter and Spears back to the Tuna in Miami to move up in the draft and get McFadden. I wouldn’t mind losing those guys so much, we have quite a lot of depth at LB and DE.

28

[QUOTE=kidchameleon]
Much like how Tony Romo had been ‘figured out’ at the end of last year. It’s even worse on the Browns because if Anderson turns out to be good, they’ve ‘blown’ two first round picks on a back up QB. Unless they can pull a Steve Walsh with Quinn.
[/QUOTE]

They haven’t blown them. They’ll never get full value for him, but I bet by this time next year there will be a half-dozen teams offering top-15 picks for Quinn.

There’s nothing more appealing to NFL GMs than a quarterback nobody knows much about.

29

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
They haven’t blown them. They’ll never get full value for him, but I bet by this time next year there will be a half-dozen teams offering top-15 picks for Quinn.

There’s nothing more appealing to NFL GMs than a quarterback nobody knows much about.
[/QUOTE]

Just like NBA GMs and freshmen with “upside”. Case in point is Marvin Williams, a second overall pick that didn’t even start for UNC. They won the national championship with him as the 6th man. He was the first Tarheel drafted.

30

I’m a Bills fan. The only move we’ve had all offseason that I know of was to Toronto.

31

PACKERS

One of the benefits of being in the NFL Championship and having the youngest team in the NFL is that there are generally not many holes to fill. I expect, like last season, the Packers not to do too much in free agency and to continue to build through the draft. So far, the only actions they’ve taken that I remember off the top of my head is cutting Bubba Franks and placing the franchise tag on Corey Williams, one of their starting DT’s. I found the former move obvious and welcome, but the latter one left me scratching my head a bit. Corey Williams is a great, young DT who is just starting to blossom, and I’m happy he’s a Packer. But, now slapping the franchise tag on him, I think the Packers chances of signing him to a long term contract are slim. I’m hoping that he doesn’t get peevish about the tag, but I’m hoping he’ll be nice trade bait.

And, of course the biggest off season question is Brett Favre. I wouldn’t be surprised if he retires, because I think it would be tough to match last season; but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he came back. Even if he leaves, I think it is pretty clear Aaron Rogers would be the starter. The Pack would have to sign a veteran backup (there’s nobody who excites me in the least). They would also grab one in the draft.

The biggest needs this off season, whether draft of free agency, is OG, CB, OLB, and TE. With Faneca looking like he’ll be back with the Steelers, Lance Briggs being too expensive and same division, I really don’t see any big moves being made for a free agent.

32

San Diego Super Charger fan poking his head in.

I don’t think this is going to be much of an off-season for us. Typically the off-season is like our Super Bowl. We spend the time getting excited about all of our free-agents and draft picks.

Our GM, AJ Smith, however has proven to be wily with his free agents… preferring to build through the draft and take care of his own. However- the last I saw we do have some good money to spend, so it’ll be interesting to see if AJ decides to spend it. We pick late in the draft, without a 2nd round pick this year, so he just may.

We will likely be losing two key players in Lorenzo Neal and Drayton Florence. However, we have heir’s to their spots already. (In Drayton’s case, his heir took his place midway through the season.)
Offensively, we may need some more consistency on the right side of the OL. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see us pick up a solid RT, or maybe somebody to challenge old man Goff at RG.

With the emergence of Jackson (FINALLY!) at the end of the year, and Chambers. Eric Parker coming back and Buster Davis in his 2nd year- our WR’s may actually now be a strength, when just this last year they were probably the weakest link. So, no need there.

Rivers finally started showing the benefits of Norv’s tough love from early in the year, and I think that this year he may become a star. If nothing else, the struggles from this past year, I suspect are behind him. Set at QB (Although we will likely draft a “3rd” QB as Volek will be gone with Charlie Whitehurst moving into the backup role)

Obviously we are set at running back.

Defensively we are as solid a team in the league. My biggest worry is a solid backup for DT Jamal Williams. When healthy one of the best in the game. The key being, “When Healthy”. We have a solid corps of young and worthy LB’s, one of the best CB duo’s in the league in Jammer and Cromartie. An Up and Comer at Safety in Weddle (a huge gamble for AJ that is paying off.) Needs here are backup DT and a Safety to complement Weddle.

So that is it, our team in a nutshell. If I were planning, I’d go after an OL in free agency and use the draft pick for other needs. Maybe trade down for a couple of lower picks and try to get a S and DT that are raw, which we can groom. AJ’s done a good job scouting those guys out, and at this point I totally trust his drafting ability.

33

[QUOTE=The Tof]
San Diego Super Charger fan poking his head in.

I don’t think this is going to be much of an off-season for us. Typically the off-season is like our Super Bowl. We spend the time getting excited about all of our free-agents and draft picks.

Our GM, AJ Smith, however has proven to be wily with his free agents… preferring to build through the draft and take care of his own. However- the last I saw we do have some good money to spend, so it’ll be interesting to see if AJ decides to spend it. We pick late in the draft, without a 2nd round pick this year, so he just may.

We will likely be losing two key players in Lorenzo Neal and Drayton Florence. However, we have heir’s to their spots already. (In Drayton’s case, his heir took his place midway through the season.)
Offensively, we may need some more consistency on the right side of the OL. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see us pick up a solid RT, or maybe somebody to challenge old man Goff at RG.

With the emergence of Jackson (FINALLY!) at the end of the year, and Chambers. Eric Parker coming back and Buster Davis in his 2nd year- our WR’s may actually now be a strength, when just this last year they were probably the weakest link. So, no need there.

Rivers finally started showing the benefits of Norv’s tough love from early in the year, and I think that this year he may become a star. If nothing else, the struggles from this past year, I suspect are behind him. Set at QB (Although we will likely draft a “3rd” QB as Volek will be gone with Charlie Whitehurst moving into the backup role)

Obviously we are set at running back.

Defensively we are as solid a team in the league. My biggest worry is a solid backup for DT Jamal Williams. When healthy one of the best in the game. The key being, “When Healthy”. We have a solid corps of young and worthy LB’s, one of the best CB duo’s in the league in Jammer and Cromartie. An Up and Comer at Safety in Weddle (a huge gamble for AJ that is paying off.) Needs here are backup DT and a Safety to complement Weddle.

So that is it, our team in a nutshell. If I were planning, I’d go after an OL in free agency and use the draft pick for other needs. Maybe trade down for a couple of lower picks and try to get a S and DT that are raw, which we can groom. AJ’s done a good job scouting those guys out, and at this point I totally trust his drafting ability.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah you guys are a pretty complete team. I get worried about River’s decision-making sometimes, but I never could figure out if it was because the Bolts never had a playmaker besides Gates to catch the ball or not. I think the Chargers still need a burner at WR.
How’s their saftey septh? Is Kiel gone, or was he just suspended for that cough medicine thingie?
It’s funny…I am a Bengals fan and we have had an absolutely disastrous run dating back to the second half of last season…losing games we should have won, having to have DE’s play LB due to massive LB injuries, player suspensions, Oline problems, top 3 RB’s all injured…
And when I read about the solidity of a roster like the Chargers, I can’t help but be envious, and hope that we can someday pay you back for being the catalyst that started our slide with that second-half debacle loss we had at your hands almost nigh two years ago now!
:slight_smile:

34

[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Yeah you guys are a pretty complete team. I get worried about River’s decision-making sometimes, but I never could figure out if it was because the Bolts never had a playmaker besides Gates to catch the ball or not. I think the Chargers still need a burner at WR.
[/quote]

Rivers started playing a lot better near the end of the season. Norv really refused to compromise with Rivers and gave him a lot of responsibility. He struggled, but really started putting it together. I think it will make him a better player in the long run.

Theoretically Vincent Jackson can be that burner. He has shown flashes, but never was able to put it together. I don’t know if he is fast enough, he certainly is huge. He was never able to emerge though, but finally int he playoffs he seemed to figure it out. Eric Parker is a hugely underrated possession guy. He had the worst game of his life two seasons ago in our Patriot loss. But he’s normally so reliable and can catch anything. So, his coming back will help us a lot. So, even without a Burner, we’ll have a lot of weapons running routes.

Our starters are Marlon McCree and Clinton Hart. Weddle is waiting in the wings to take over a starting spot. AFter that, pickings are pretty slim. Kiel, I believe, was cut before before the season before this last one.. but I can’t be 100% sure on that. We definitely didn’t have him this season. Like I mentioned, I’d like a Safety. Clinton Hart is OK, and McCree is a hard hitter, but is getting older. Bottom line, this is an area that needs addressed.

That was a crazy game. I remember just laughing at the ridiculousness of that game in the first half, because it was so out of control in the Bengals favor. I almost missed the second half, because I was going to find something better to do with my time.

We got lucky that AJ turned out to be a very good GM. But everything is cyclical. You guys will have your day :slight_smile:

35

OK, this is probably going to be a pretty wild-and-woolly off-season for the Bears. I’m going to break it up into sections for review.

Secondary
We are pretty much locked up at this position. Both CBs, Vasher and Tillman, were signed to long-term extensions during last season at a fairly reasonable price. It’s nice not having a hole there, but we are pretty much married to them and they didn’t play up to expectations last season. Hopefully with a healthy team around them they’ll bounce back to Pro Bowl form. The vastly overrated Ricky Manning Jr. is also locked up at safety for another 4 years, we’ll see if he survives the off-season. Archuleta is almost certainly on the chopping block too, thank god. Mike Brown is in the last year of his contract, not sure if they intend to offer him an extension prior to the start of this year, personally I hope they wait for him to prove he can stay healthy. The Bears always draft a couple DBs in the middle rounds of the draft and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add some depth this year as well. They have too much money tied up in the secondary to add any Free Agents though.

Linebackers
Urlacher and Hillenmeyer are both signed long term and won’t be going anywhere, though we could desperately use an infusion of youth at the LB position. Briggs probably won’t be back even though he’s softened his stance and said he’d be open to coming back. Typically the Bears don’t respond well to players playing hardball, so it’s probably a long shot for him to come back. The Bears have far too much money invested in their defense. They need to get some cheap production from a young guy somewhere. With luck they’ll find one in the draft because we certainly don’t have anyone on the roster now who can replace him.

Defensive Line
We were extremely soft in the middle this season with the mass exodus after the Super Bowl and injuries made that even worse. Tommie Harris is the key but he needs help. Darwin Walker is gone and no one on the roster showed signs of life. This is a higher priority than replacing Briggs and if they add a free agent it’s has to be a DT. I’d give my left nut to trade up to draft Glenn Dorsey, but that’s a total pipe dream since the Bears trade down, not up as a rule. We’re in better shape at End. Ogunleye is very solid and Alex Brown, just extended, and Mark Anderson make up a really good pass rush platoon.

Offensive Line
Starters Ruben Brown and Fred Miller are both gone and there’s no apparent solution in place to replace them, O-Line was one of the team biggest problems for them last year, so parting ways with these guys makes perfect sense, but I had hoped that by this point we’d have a gameplan towards improving. The backups St. Clair and Metcalf have shown flashes, but I’m not comfortable putting our entire season on them. There’s lots of talk about the Bears bringing in Alan Faneca which would go a long ways to getting the running game back on track but it still leaves a big hole at Tackle. If there’s a quality OT in the draft you can guarantee that the Bears draft him. Ryan Clady would be a blessing if he fell to us.

Receivers
The Bears just resigned Desmond Clark to a 2-year deal which is a little confusing. I like the guy but we drafted Olsen in the first round and should be getting to a point where he’s the starter. Olsen has performed well when he got chances and his ceiling is way higher than Clark. Not sure what they are paying Clark, but I hope it doesn’t hurt our ability to resign Berrian. Berrian is probably our top priority FA and the loss of Mushin Muhammad makes retaining him crucial. We should be able to retain him because this year’s WR FA class is pretty deep holding his price down a bit. I’d love to see the Bears make a run at Jerry Porter as well. He seems like a nice gamble who could be gotten at a bargain and would look good opposite Berrian. The Bears need to stay healthy at WR and I suspect they’ll try and build depth late in the draft,

Running Backs
I could just rant and rave here, but I just don’t have the energy. Cedric Benson has completely destroyed my will to live. We can’t even afford to cut the scumbag because of the contract his holdout landed him. I hope he gets polio. Our only prayer is if we can secure a RB in the draft, but we can’t afford to take one in the first 2 rounds. It’s a deep class so we might get lucky and get Steve Slaton in the 3rd round. My dream of getting Mendenhall is just not going to happen.

Quarterback
I’m saving this for last because I can barely get my mind around the fact that we just resigned Rex-fucking-Grossman. Now, logically I understand it. There really isn’t anyone else out there that’s realistic and they signed him to a small, one year deal. He’s not assured the starting spot and I do think he has ability. His problem has always been that fact that he’s simply too dumb to play the position. Part of me remembers those beautiful deep balls he dropped in Berrian’s hands every other game in 2006 and I hope that the coaching staff can brow beat him into limiting the turnovers. Forcing an INT is one thing, fumbling a snap or getting stripepd from behind every key play is just too crippling and soul sucking. The real question is what is our other alternative. There’s no way we’re trading for McNabb based on what the Eagles are asking for him. Derek Anderson would have been a nice gamble but as a RFA we’d have to give up a 1st and 3rd rounder, which is too much for a guy with those question marks. This is easily the weakest QB FA class I have ever seen. One look at the available list of QBs convinces me that the Dolphins have to draft Matt Ryan at #1.

Overall I’m not very optimistic about this Bears season. We have a lot of talent and we’ve got the flexibility to fill our holes. We need some coaching changes, I’m not sure I can handle another season with Ron turner. I think we can fix our problems on the O-line and D-line in the draft. I think we can replace Briggs and Muhammad. However Benson and Grossman are featured prominently in any plans, which is a recipe for disaster. Unless we’re able to draft a sleeper RB and find a good project QB how can start next season in the middle rounds (extremely unlikely) we’re not going to be able to return the Super Bowl any time soon.

This sucks.

36

Darren McFadden just ran a 4.27 40 at the combine.

37

[QUOTE=Omniscient]
Our only prayer is if we can secure a RB in the draft, but we can’t afford to take one in the first 2 rounds.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I personally don’t think any team can afford to take a RB in the first two rounds simply because I don’t feel any RB is worth it. Sure, there’s always going to be an occasional Ladainian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson, but when it gets down to it the later round picks can easily be solid players. Hell, Curtis Martin was a 3rd rounder.

I’d point to the Giants backfield during the 07 training camp as an example:

Brandon Jacobs, 4th rounder (and you hate him anyway)
Derrick Ward, 7th rounder
Ahmad Bradshaw, 7th rounder
Ryan Grant, undrafted free agent

It is clearly possible to build a formidable stable of running backs without ever spending a first-day pick and without signing a high-priced free agent. Not to mention the fact that both Ward and Bradshaw return kicks. (Not that you need help with that, but still.)

38

[QUOTE=Ellis Dee]
Yeah, I personally don’t think any team can afford to take a RB in the first two rounds simply because I don’t feel any RB is worth it. Sure, there’s always going to be an occasional Ladainian Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson, but when it gets down to it the later round picks can easily be solid players. Hell, Curtis Martin was a 3rd rounder.

I’d point to the Giants backfield during the 07 training camp as an example:

Brandon Jacobs, 4th rounder (and you hate him anyway)
Derrick Ward, 7th rounder
Ahmad Bradshaw, 7th rounder
Ryan Grant, undrafted free agent

It is clearly possible to build a formidable stable of running backs without ever spending a first-day pick and without signing a high-priced free agent. Not to mention the fact that both Ward and Bradshaw return kicks. (Not that you need help with that, but still.)
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, however Angelo is simply incapable of scouting running backs. He can identify defensive players, but the guy has never drafted a productive running back in his career (he did draft Warrick Dunn, but I’d argue he wasn’t worth the 12th overall pick). Expecting the same guy who drafted Cedric Benson 4th overall to identify a stable of late rounders is like asking Parcells to teach a sensitivity course. If I thought he was capable of picking a effective feature back I’d support him using a first round pick, so long as it means I never have to heard Cedric Bensons name called again.

39

[QUOTE=Omniscient]
Angelo is simply incapable of scouting running backs.
[/QUOTE]
It’s funny how some GM’s just seem to have blind spots. Ernie Accorsi may have been a genius at scouting defensive ends, but he was terrible at wide receivers and cornerbacks. Tim Carter, Ron Dixon, Jamaar Taylor, Sinorice Moss, Willie Ponder, Will Allen, William Peterson, Frank Walker, Curtis Deloatch…ugh.

In just one year Jerry Reese is making me feel a lot more comfortable about the Giants drafting cornerbacks and wide receivers, with both Aaron Ross and Steve Smith looking pretty good. Then again, he moved Mathias Kiwanuka from DE to OLB with mixed results at best, and he didn’t bring in a quality fourth DE. I sure hope DE isn’t one of his blind spots, but even if it is, Osi, Tuck and Kiwi are still young.

The biggest move I want to see is moving Kiwanuka back to DE. When Reggie Torbor stepping in is a clear upgrade, there is a gaping hole in your defense.

40

On this topic I decided to do some digging and look at Jerry Angelo’s track record with RBs.

It appears that his first draft pick was in 1986 for Tampa Bay, one Bo Jackson, selected #1 overall. Bo didn’t want to play for the Bucs and decided to play baseball instead. I wonder if that bad experience has turned Jerry into a bitter, angry, scorned lover when it comes to scouting RBs. Every time he tries to turn on tape of a college running back his lips begin to quiver and his hands clench and unclench before he whips the remote against the wall and storms out.

Since that Bo Jackson debacle he’s drafted exactly 20 RBs in 21 seasons making up this immortal list:

Mike Crawford, Steve Bartalo, Don Smith, William Howard, Lars Tate, Patrick Egu, Jamie Lawson, Derrick Douglas, Reggie Cobb, Mazio Royster, Rudy Harris, Errict Rhett, Warrick Dunn, Autry Denson, Anthony Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Brock Forsey, Cedric Benson, J.D. Runnels, Garrett Wolfe.

I mean, wow, that throws it into contrast don’t it?

His track record of first rounders, which should be the closest to a sure thing, was Bo, who he couldn’t even convince to show up. Warrick Dunn, who has been pretty solid but probably not worthy of a 12th overall pick. And finally the corpse known as Cedric Benson with the 4th overall pick. Nice job Jerry!