I don’t think I’ve ever seen two players have PI called on each other.
I have not seen alot of the Browns this season. It’s patently obvious to me that the complete lack of any originality in play design and play calling really hampers this offense. Put me on the “Freddie Kitchens should go” bandwagon.
That second one was ridiculous and dumbass Pereria was trying to say it wasn’t worthy of an ejection. Looking at the guy afterwards I wouldn’t be surprised if his season is over.
That said, the Steelers history on this definitely makes them a target. Can’t say it surprises me.
Maybe it’s a production crew specific choice. Seems like it’s pushed way back into the background, maybe they want Buck/Aikman the center of attention.
The weird thing is that the Kitchens as OC offense was very good and suited the talent well. The Kitchens as HC offense looks a lot more like Monken’s offense, which doesn’t fit the talent well. Freddy should’ve hired one of his position coaches familiar with his offense as OC and designed/called his own plays. Monken is not a good match.
This is the most bored I’ve ever been with the Browns having a lead on the Steelers. Like other Browns games this year, it feels like we should probably be up 20 points and we’re not, and it’s just going to take one drive to take the game from us. Other than watching the pressure of the Browns D, this is kind of a miserable game to watch.
Can I name Mason Rudolph as the Player of the Game? For the Browns, of course.
Well that was… an ending… to an ugly game. Rematch in 2 weeks, should be fun.
Kitchens needs to be fired.
Garrett needs to be done for the Season.
Pouncey deserves a nominal fine.
DeCastro deserves the Nobel peace prize.
Garrett should be suspended for the rest of the season and possibly charged with assault. Clubbing someone over the head full-force with a heavy object? The only reason this wasn’t the NFL’s own Todd Bertuzzi/Steve Moore incident is that Mason Rudolph somehow seems to be OK through dumb luck. That was insane.
Alright, so a question: are you guys okay with Pouncey kicking and punching a downed Garrett?
On reddit, they’re praising it. Pouncey protecting his QB, etc. etc.
But Pouncey wasn’t “protecting” the QB at that point - Garrett was pinned down on the ground away from the QB, and Pouncey was continuously punching him and kicking him in the head. At this point, Pouncey isn’t protecting, he’s retaliating.
So the sequence of events in this: Rudolph tries to twist Garrett’s helmet off, potentially hurting Garrett’s neck or head. Garrett freaks out and massively retaliates disproportionately, going off on Rudolph and risking seriously injuring him.
Pouncey comes in and attacks Garrett to get him off Pouncey - that’s fine - but after Garrett is well off Pouncey and pinned down by Decastro, Pouncey keeps punching and kicking his head. That’s retaliation.
To be clear, this is in no way a defense of Garrett.
What I don’t get is - if Garrett massively, disproportionately retaliating against Rudolph is bad - which it is - why is Pouncey trying to retaliate and harm Garrett good?
On reddit that got me massively downvoted without anyone actually telling me how I was wrong.
I am absolutely OK with Pouncey’s reaction. I am also absolutely ok with the massive fine and possible suspension that Pouncey will receive.
Garrett deliberately did something that could have not only put Rudolph out of the game, but out of the league entirely. If we’re going to point out Garrett’s retaliation for the facemask, we need to discuss whether that itself was retalition for Garrett’s actions during the play. After Rudolph got rid of the ball, Garrett wrapped around him and twisted him down.
At which point, Garrett rips off Rudolph’s helmet and swings it at his head, over someone trying to separate them.
Garrett intentionally took an action that could have ended a career. He deserves his beating AND his suspension. And Pouncey will take his punishment with a grin on his face.
I mean - Pouncey was punching and kicking a guy who was pinned down in the head. He was clearly trying to inflict damage. If he was successful, and he knocked Garrett out, or seriously injured him otherwise, would that be something to praise?
Pouncey was trying to pay back a crappy, cowardly, criminal act by performing a crappy, cowardly, criminal act. He only has two defenses; one is that Garrett at least still had hit helmet on (not that it would save him from a broken neck), the other is “but he did it first”.
Garrett’s actions could have killed Rudolph. At least Pouncey didn’t take Garrett’s helmet off first.
I don’t think Pouncey has a defense, nor should he desire one. What Pouncey did would be uncalled for in the normal course of events. Having an opponent rip the helmet off of your quarterback and then hit him in the head with it is not the normal course of events, and all bets are off at that point. I won’t defend Pouncey’s actions, but neither will I condemn them.
Garrett should thank his lucky stars he didn’t leave the field on a stretcher.
Ogunjobi should also get a long vacation. Blindsiding a guy with no helmet on, that just took a shot to the crown of his head? Fuck him too.
Browns play the Steelers again in 2 weeks, which is going to be a brutal game, like the Rats-Steelers games usually are, but possibly dirtier.
Browns have a good chance to have a winning record in the division this year. I’m not sure they’ve done that this century. Hit 3-3 a few times, but I don’t think they hit 4-2, although I don’t know that without looking up every season. They’re 2-0 with one on the road against the rats and one at home with the Steelers. I don’t think the Steelers are going to be a significantly better team in any way in 2 weeks and the victory was fairly convincing so a repeat is not unreasonable. Cinci is a dumpster fire this year, so they could potentially hit 4 wins on those games alone. The next Ravens game is at home. Browns manhandled them the first game, but they seem to be playing a lot better now. I’d actually say it’s probable they’re gonna have a winning division record, although I doubt they can catch the rats for the actual division win.
IMO Pouncey can’t be defended, but his actions can be, I don’t know, sympathized with? In terms of what he did, it wasn’t quite as bad as the old Haynesworth stomp because that was out of the blue on an unsuspecting player. Pounceys’ was a heat of the moment response to a very specific action. I can see him getting a 2, maybe 3, game suspension.
Garrett OTOH is guilty of one the worst displays in North American sports ever. I mean worse than Bertuzzi/ Moore and worse than McSorley/ Brashear. I don’t know what standard to hold him to in football. Is the Burfict suspension the bar? I would have said half a season suspension but with the 12 for Burfict, maybe Garrett gets a full 16.
After the game Kitchens said that Garrett’s actions were embarrassing. No, they were far beyond embarrassing. I have to wonder, how much blame does a coach get when there is that much lack of discipline?
I have to admit, the first thing I thought seeing the video of the fight was, “Wow, unlike every other one of these types of fights I saw when I played football, Garrett’s using the other guy’s helmet to beat him with, instead of taking off his own. Smart.”
That said, Garrett’s is phenomenally lucky he didn’t connect better with the hard side of that helmet, and knock Rudolph out or fracture his skull. He probably ends up in bracelets if that happened. Pouncey, with his repeated kicks to Garrett’s head, is really lucky too. Connect on one of those below the rim of the helmet and on Garrett’s cervical vertebrae, and it could have been really, really bad. This kicking people in the head stuff when they’re knocked down seems a fairly recent thing, and needs to be put down hard. Though that’s a lot more of an outside-the-NFL problem.
As it is, this is Garrett’s, what, third major incident this year where the League has to fine him? Initially, I was curious what set off Garrett, but with that track record, who knows? Doing it on the League’s marquee Thursday game, to a quarterback, is not doing himself any favors either. And at the end of the game, in a game they were winning by 14?! What the fuck is wrong with you, dude? You have that much energy to start a brawl at the end of the game?
Accordingly, give him the rest of the season off, and a hefty fine to boot. He does anything again, give him the whole following year off. Give Pouncey four games. I’m sure there are other suspensions and fines that can be handed out, particularly with the helmet-to-helmet stuff earlier. It also looks like an officiating crew that failed to maintain control of their game.
How does Kitchens still have a job?
You’re completely correct. But i also had the following take: "Dude just got smacked with a helmet and he stood there with his hands out like “what the fuck”…half the soccer players in the world would still be on the floor.
No need to impugn soccer players. It’s just a different culture in the NFL. NHL players would’ve acted the same as the NFL guys, IMHO. (And I disagree about the severity of Garrett’s actions vs other assaults in pro sports: McSorley’s was far worse, IMHO.)
I did want to bring up that whacking a player with his own helmet isn’t unprecedented in the NFL. Recently, the Texans’ Antonio Smith went upside Richie Incognito’s head with Richie’s helmet in a preseason game. Smith caught a three game ban for that. As well he should have, even though I’m sure the League privately was tempted to cheer Smith rather than suspend him.
What was missing from Smith’s punishment was the social media drama, all of the ‘This is an outrage!’, ‘He needs to be banned for life!’, ‘He needs to go to prison!’, etc… I agree that Garrett probably should be suspended for the rest of the year, and go under a Burfict-esque zero tolerance microscope for his subsequent employment in the NFL. I just think the drama and histrionics surrounding this incident are way overblown. Because that’s what the 24 hour news cycle demands in the age of social media.
I think what aggravates it is that the hittee is the QB. Some animals are just more equal than others. But regardless, this was ADW on live tv. The attention is warranted. So is the outrage. Note that much of the outrage comes from other players on other teams. They presumably have some experience to compare the level of seriousness with.