NFL Week 16 and Pro Bowl selections

Cafe Society
1

They just announced Pro Bowl selections here:

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story;jsessionid=41696E4622625F35424D22909A6FEF30?id=09000d5d8053b226&template=without-video&confirm=true

Of course it’s a sham with players getting in based on name recognition, popularity, and past accomplishments.

The Browns got shafted but I don’t care that much.

Parker over Taylor is arguable. Taylor’s appearance would be sort of a lifetime achievement award and I don’t really support that, but Parker has been more over-used than good. He’s not bad, but his YPC isn’t great. Taylor is actually a very efficient runner with a great YPC, but isn’t getting run into the ground like Parker.

Lorenzo Neal is/was very good, and I haven’t seen that much of him this year, but that seems like the safe name recognition pick. I thought Lee Vickers had a legitimate chance because he’s surprised me with his lead blocking.

Braylon probably deserves to be a starter.

Winslow got shafted. He’s put up better stats than Tony G on one knee and one shoulder. I don’t think anyone appreciates how hurt the guy is - he (rumor, forget if it was confirmed) bought a ranch house so that he wouldn’t have to use the stairs, but he goes out there every week, takes brutal hits and probably can’t move Monday morning, and still puts up some of the best stats.

Ogden as a pro bowl tackle reserve is a sham. Total name recognition/safe pick. He’s been phoning it in half the year. Joe Thomas (who I was very against drafting and has surprised me) deserves it over Ogden, and there are probably a few others too.

Faneca probably also doesn’t deserve it. He’s been very good in past years, but he has had a decent to good year - not great. What’s strange is that Steinbach was leading in fan votes, but apparently got no credit from coaches or players.

The defensive selections are better. Champ Bailey seems to have his pro bowl spot locked in regardless of his performance.

It’s good to see Cribbs as the KR. It was absurd that Wes Welker was leading the fan vote until the last week or two.

I don’t know the NFC well enough to comment.

2

Fred Taylor not getting in is ridiculous.

Sean Taylor made the team, not sure about that. He only played 10 games, was pretty dominant when he was in there. I don’t really know who else could have gone in his place. I’m a little surprised Driver made it over Greg Jennings.

I would have taken Garrard over Rothlesberger.

3

Fan voting numbers:

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d80513551&template=without-video&confirm=true

4

I know nobody wants to hear this, but it’s about time the New England offensive line got some props.

And I know nobody REALLY wants to hear this, but it’s nice to see Brady in there at #1 after he got totally shafted last year.

5

A good indication of Bay Area offenses: the 49ers’ Andy Lee and Raiders’ Shane Lechler are having great seasons and are thus the punters for both pro-bowl teams.

Future Defensive Rookie of the Year Patrick Willis should have been the starter, but we’ll just have to deal with it.

I’m beginning to become a fan of Minnesota’s Adrian Peterson. His on-the-field prowess is certain, but I was very impressed with his post-game interviews on Monday Night. There’s a spark in his eyes and intelligence in his words, plus he has just the right mixture of humility and confidence. I especially liked his interaction with Emmit Smith and Steve Young. (props to Emmit for some great advice, too)

6

Wow, the Cowboys got some love. Newman finally got noticed for all he does.

And the two best NFC kickers this year are rookies. How wacky is that?

7

So who ya benching, Wayne or Moss? Edwards has been outstanding, not doubt, but I’m not sure I see him supplanting either of those guys. His numbers are slightly better than Wayne, but Wayne is the #1 guy on the defending Super Bowl Champs, a 12-2 team, who has been playing most of the season with Marvin on the other side.

Winslow didn’t get shafted either. Sure, he had a good year, but you don’t get points for playing hurt. Gonzo is old as hell, I imagine that he’s not exactly feeling great come Monday morning. The two’s numbers are basically identical, and when that happens you always go with the guy who’s the incumbent.

Nothing wrong with some homerism, but lets not over do it. Both guys have a case, but I can’t see how either clearly deserved it.

The most glaring issue on the NFC side is Lofa Tatupu as the starting ILB. He doesn’t suck but I don’t understand his inclusion. His numbers are nothing special, he hasn’t really been a highlight reel aside from one big game, and his team’s defense is average at best in a weak division. Ruud, Urlacher, Barnett, Fletcher are all probably having better seasons. Willis as his backup is solely because he’s the only guy on a crappy defense and therefore put up a lot of tackles, he’ll probably be a Pro Bowler one day, but not based on this one season. For my money it should have been Barnett and Flecther as the backup.

8

Wow, I’m shocked anyone came away with that. I thought he came across as borderline retarded in that interview. If it weren’t for rehearsed platitudes he’s have been left babbling incoherently. Then again, him and Emmitt seem to speak the same language. Frankly I though the way Emmitt tried to insert himself into the conversation was pretty tasteless to boot. Lets bring in Eric Dickerson and Magic Johnson in and we can call it a day. Peterson does seem humble and pleasant, I’ll give him that, but articulate he ain’t.

9

Well, he’s not articulate, but I thought the substance was decent. Not the player version of insipid coach-speak or a T.O.-like surly arrogance.

Oh, and the 49er defense is not crappy, look at what they did to Peterson. :stuck_out_tongue: (They’re just overworked because the offense has been numbingly horrific.)

10

To each his own. Did you see this video?

We kept making plays and working hard, yadda yadda. Insipid IMHO.

11

Moss definitely deserves to be #1, I’d make Wayne an alternate. Wayne plays in a dome and receives from a top 2 QB, one of the all time greats. Edwards has also made more highlight/clutch/circus/etc plays, I think, and that should count for something in the mostly superficial pro bowl.

Why not? It makes it a bigger individual accomplishment.

I can see your point here. I shouldn’t say Winslow got “shafted” in the sense that it’s obvious that he should’ve made it, but I’d go with the guy who’s busting his ass playing at 80% health and put up the numbers.

I’m not trying to go overboard - for instance I didn’t make a case that Anderson or Lewis should be in there.

Thinking more about it, the offensive line probably got it much worse. Ogden making it at tackle is a joke. He hasn’t played that much this year, and when he has he’s a shell of his former self. It’s probably a case of the players saying “uh… I’ve gotta pick a tackle… uh… well… Brady’s LT is pretty good… and… uh… ok, tackles… Ogden is always going to the pro bowl, I’ll vote for him”

I was against the drafting of Joe Thomas (both because I really thought Peterson could be a star, and because Thomas didn’t play very well in his bowl game, the only game of his I watched), but he’s really impressed and surprised me this year. He’s been a dominant run blocker and has only given up 1 sack all year against good pass rushing teams, and anchors a line that is giving up the 2nd fewest sacks in the league. Ogden over Thomas (and probably at least 2 other AFC LTs more deserving) is way way worse than Gonzo over Winslow.

Dielman over Steinbach isn’t quite as bad, but some telling statistics are that Jamal runs for 5.4 yards to the left, and 3.6 yards to the right. Tomlinson runs for 6.6 to the right, and 3.7 to the left. Dielman is a left guard. And Steinbach is a better pass protector.

The Browns may have the best left side in football this year - for neither to go is a shame. But O-line at the pro bowl often comes down to name recognition - who John Madden fellates, who has gone to pro bowls in the past, etc.

12

I think that applies to all the positions, not just O-line. From another perspective, “name recognition” can also be boiled down to “a body of work”. In your above cases of Wayne v. Edwards and Gonzo v. Winslow, the numbers on both were essentially a wash. The guys with “name recognition” got in, but I’d argue that those two guys have earned that spot based on their past history. All other things being equal, that’d be my tie-breaker…for what it’s worth.

The real distinction that that there’s no good statistic for offensive line play. Makes it harder for the casual fan who only gets to watch his 3 network games and 2 primetime games every week to make an objective comparison. I suppose those players who eventually do supplant a veteran in the Pro Bowl on the O-line can take extra pride in it, since they really played well to stand out. If Thomas gets there in the next 2 or 3 years, he’ll probably be there for a decade. That knife cuts both ways.

13

As an NC State grad, it’s time for my combination “Mario Williams haters should eat crow”/“Mario Williams should be in the Pro Bowl” post. I’d imagine he’s gonna be the first alternate if one of the other DEs begs off of going to Hawaii.

14

He damn well better be. Probably the biggest snub on the whole roster.

15

Yeah, Driver was a weird selection, but I only noticed because he’s on my fantasy team and he hasn’t caught a TD since week 2 or 3. I blame Favre.

Fred Taylor is a tough call. He came on lately, but he splits carries. I’m not sure if that should affect whether or not he gets in, but it certainly did.

I think Winslow should be in over Gonzalez, but I might just be saying that because I’m a Cleveland fan. Winslow has been playing hurt, but Gonzalez also doesn’t get much help from his QB or receiving corps. K2 does play for a better team, though.

Am I missing something or did Marques Colston get seriously screwed?

I’m a bit worried about Browns vs. Bengals this week. Road game against a division rival with a deceptively bad record and an always-dangerous offense. On top of that, they’d love to ruin our playoff run. Total trap game.

Can someone explain Wild Card tiebreakers for me? I know it goes:

  1. Head to head
  2. Conference record
  3. Record in common games

I’m clear on the first two, but the third part confuses me. For example, the Titans lost to Cincy this year. Say the Browns lose to Cincy this weekend (after beating them earlier in the season). Which Browns-Bengals game is used for the common games record? The win or the loss?

16

It’s based on winning percentage, so it counts both games. The Titans and Browns will have both played Cincy, NY Jets, Houston and Oakland. The Browns played Cincy twice and the Titans played Houston twice.

Tennessee is 3-1 with the Jets left to play. The Browns are 3-1 with the Bengals left to play. The Browns could really live to rue the day they lost to the Raiders.

17

My understanding is that it’d count as 2 games. So it’d count as both a win and a loss for our common games. Similarly they played Houston twice and we played them once so it’ll come out equal. I wonder what would happen, though, if a divisional matchup only happened on one side. Would a 3-1 common games record beat a 3-2 one?

If the Browns lose to Cinci and Tennessee wins out then Cleveland misses the playoffs. If they win this weekend then they clinch at least a wild card spot.

Cinci worries me a little. From rumors it seems that the team is in pretty severe turmoil and falling apart. I hope they just roll over. But the Browns can’t put away bad opponents - the coaching decisions are terrible in that regard. Romeo has a philosophy of “keep it close, win it at the end” and he stupidly seems to apply that to keeping bad teams in the game, and letting teams make comebacks. “Oh crap, we’re up by 20… give up a few touchdowns, quick. We need to keep this one close and try to win it at the end.”

That said, if they can’t beat Cinci then they don’t really deserve to be in the playoffs.

I’m going out for Thursday night’s game. If the Steelers lose, not only is it great for the Browns playoff chances, but I think it’d really motivate the team to win out and win the division. It’d be a huge momentum creating game for the rest of the season and wild card weekend.

True, but for reasons you later state, it’s much more important to the O-line. If a receiver has a 1500 yard, 15 TD season there’s almost no chance he’ll miss the pro bowl over a consistently good vet that gets 1000/6. But if there’s equivelant production in line play, the known commidity probably goes.

The main reason I say Edwards over Wayne is that while the numbers are similar, Wayne is in a much better position to put up numbers, so having the same numbers should be looked as a greater achievement for Edwards. Edwards had to catch passes last weekend in a blizzard from an inconsistent, often inaccurate QB. Wayne will be catching passes in a dome from one of the all time greats.

18

Yes, the rules very specifically say that it’s based on winning percentage for this reason.

See #3 in the “OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES” section.

19

Is it homerism time? Trent Cole should have been selected, his numbers were equal or better than two of the three players selected above him.

20

I’d have taken Fred Taylor over Joseph Addai.

They’re making a big deal out of no Bucs making it, even though we have one of the best defenses in the league. Brooks is having a Pro Bowl type year (he didn’t deserve to go last year, so maybe this is make-up karma), Ronde Barber deserves consideration and so do Barrett Ruud, who leads the team in tackles after replacing Shelton Quarles, Greg White who has been a monster at end. You’ll likely see Tanard Jackson there in the future if he keeps it up, even though I’m sure no one here has heard of him, and Jermaine Phillips could creep in.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that we get the four seed in the NFC, beat the Giants at home and then take out Dallas (and their 11 picks) in Dallas. That would be sweet recompense.