Both conference finals were short, but big on drama. Here’s hoping for an intense and exciting final series.
Not really, as there’s more than enough reason to believe it would be the case. The Devils were held back by Marty’s injury and a horrific, historically poor shooting percentage, but they still won the season series against the Pens, as they usually do, because the way they’re built is how you beat the Penguins.
I won’t bother trying to argue the hypothetical since it is ultimately unprovable and this wouldn’t be the place for it anyway, but I will say that even in March when the Penguins were on a roll I knew there were three teams in the East that could beat them if they had to: the Bruins, the Rangers and the Devils.
Regardless, I’m just having a little fun with the crestfallen yinzers after pointing out the flaws in the Penguins months ago and having them come out of the of the woodwork to browbeat me with cherry-picked stats (my favorite was the guy who narrowed the goalie field to those who’d played 30+ games in a 48 game season to get Fleury into the top 10 of GAON/60 stat, just so they could say he was “a top ten goalie”) for daring to criticize the invincible Penguins or the infallible wisdom of their GM.
I can think of another team who had a terribnle shooting percentage - worse than New Jersey - and lost their goalie for a huge stretch of time: the Ottawa Senators. (Their shooting percentage was quite a bit worse, really; New Jersey’s wasn’t even SECOND worst in the league this year, so how it was historically poor, I don’t understand.) How’d Ottawa fare against Pittsburgh?
There’s no need to speculate as to who would have beaten whom; Pittsburgh did, in fact, beat New Jersey. Comparing New Jersey to Boston is crazy; Boston is a first rate team, New Jersey is a crappy team.
My prediction: Hawks in 6
Historically poor in that it was the worst team shooting percentage they’d ever had.
Difference being that Ottawa got at least average replacement goaltending out of their backups. Hedberg dove off a cliff and dragged the team down with him (2.76 GAA and .883 S%).
Outside of the similarities in low shooting percentages and losing their starting goalies for a while, there aren’t very many similarities between the two teams, so that’s a poor comparison.
Once in four tries on the season.
Eh, that’s your opinion and the advanced stats say otherwise, but you’re free to believe as you’d like. I didn’t compare the two teams, though. I’ll be the first to admit Boston is a superior team. I’ve been on the record as saying Boston was the best team in the East for months now. All I said was that they were both teams, along with the Rangers, who would have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs. That doesn’t make NJ, or even NYR, equals of Boston… just suited to handle the way Pittsburgh plays well enough to come out ahead in a 7 game series.
Living in Chicago now, I’m psyched for the Hawks to win. I so want to go to a Stanley Cup parade here!
Once in four tries on the season.
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Boston was 0-3 against Pittsburgh in the regular season. Obviously, past performance means nothing. Statistically, Pittsburgh is a better team than New Jersey. Claiming New Jersey would have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs indicates heavy bias. You can’t claim “your” team would beat them just because Boston destroyed them. See: New York Islanders, Ottawa Senators.
I detect a wee bit of sour grapes. Maybe we didn’t make it all the way to the finals. But we had a kickass season. We had a 15-game winning streak, almost setting a new record (said record is also held by – you guessed it – the Penguins). A couple of our players are up for awards, as is our GM. We’ve got a great roster (Boston’s still making snide remarks about Iginla not signing! Tee hee!), we were the #1 seed in the East, we didn’t have any major injuries, any suspensions (IIRC), and we have an amazing fan base. And best of all? The Flyers were at the bottom of the Atlantic. That’s always sweet.
So yeah, we were swept in the semi-finals. But hey, if Stanley Cups were easy, they wouldn’t be worth it.
Now, back to the play-offs. Anyone else curious if they’ll have Bettman hand out the Cup? Considering the animosity this season, I think he’d be lucky if he only gets booed.
I was planning on rooting on my Bruins. But seeing how I would be unable to attend the parade, and you really want to see a parade, maybe I’ll cheer on the 'Hawks
For what it’s worth, I agree with soulmark. Not only have the Devils owned us in the regular season for 4 years now, they play the exact kind of hockey that dismantles Bylsma in the playoffs - a layered team defense with a smart opportunistic offense. That kind of hockey translates to the playoffs well, where hooking/obstruction/clutch and grab/interference is ignored, which further hinders the “yippe kay yay motherfucker” Penguins offense.
What’s weird is that the Devil’s in last years playoffs played exactly how we used to when we won the the cup. They were always in the offensive zone, they cycled for minutes and sometimes shifts at a time, they held the blue line well - none of this off the rush, one and done nonsense Bylsma tried over and over. It’s why people say Crosby and Malkin choked: Crosby’s line was grinder/playmaker/grinder and Malkin’s was finisher/playmaker/finisher, which meant that once the playmaker entered the zone, they had absolutely no options, as none of their wingers could generate offense on their own. Why I’m calling for Bylsma’s head, as well as a lot of Pens’ fans, is we had the talent/personal to create truly nightmare matchups for Boston and it was never even considered, not even when our backs were against the wall. As much as I love Dupuis, he wouldn’t be a top 6 winger on any team in the final four - he’s a perfect third line winger. But Bylsma promised to keep him on the top 2 lines when we got Iggy, to not hurt his feelings - which is exactly opposite of how you should coach.
But I probably won’t have to worry much longer, because Bylsma’s done and he knows it. His presser was a black and white filter and Ravel piano sonata away from being a surrealistic masterpiece. He said the most wacked out, insane shit, among them…
First, that’s Shero’s decision to make. Second, there’s no way Fleury has a future in Pittsburgh if Bylsma’s around. Third, way to throw Vokoun under the bus - he plays the best playoffs of almost any goalie in Penguins history and he’s still only a backup? There’s no accountability for MAF’s epic meltdown? Why can’t he say “They both played really well and I believe both can still win games for us” rather than promise him a starting job which isn’t in his power to do?
On the power play…
So a power play that went 0-16 and never once changed tactics/personal had too many options…? The hell…?
Etc.
I know my posts are long, but I like hockey/the Penguins. I guess in summary, it matters so much for me because the Penguins have had some arrogant f’n coaches - Therrien, Bylsma - and it gives the team/players/fans an unnecessary reputation. Teams mirror their coaches, so is it any wonder the Penguins act like petulant children when they don’t get their way when the coach takes no responsibility for losses, holds no players accountable, and believes they only ever lose because they don’t get bounces and that there’s a “force field” around the opponent’s net?
What’s crazy is that him getting fired and getting a change of scenery will probably humble him enough to be effective again. He’s too spoiled now, especially with the Pittsburgh media. But I could see him doing really well in NY - I can even see him winning a cup with them - but I just don’t think he can repeat with this team.
But that’s hockey!
Also, anyone following the situation in Glendale? As it’s been for 4 years now, Quebec is waiting with open arms for a franchise - they have the arena, the fans, everything waiting on Bettman. Bettman hates Quebec for some reason and refuses to even consider it.
Meanwhile, his little experiment in the desert has… dried up. The NHL owning a franchise is stupid anyway, but they wouldn’t even allow the Coyotes to resign Ryan f’n Whitney in free agency even though he was their leading scorer - losing him was a direct result of them missing the playoffs this year. Dave Tippet and the GM have worked miracles year after year, but even DT wants out at this point.
Bettman wants a new hockey arena built in the city and it simply won’t happen.
Bettman wants a new owner to buy the franchise for $150 million when independent banks think it’s worth at most $50 million.
Bettman accidentally leaked that they loose over $40 million a year as a franchise. When the Coyotes somehow got to the WCF, they spent more money on marketing the home playoff games then they took in.
So, they can’t even pretend that there’s a bidding war for the franchise. The NHL is stuck as owners.
Meanwhile, their arena management deal with the City of Glendale ended and they need a new one. But the city council and mayor were hoisted out of office for agreeing to the last one and the new mayor/council people refuse to budge. The only arena management company that agreed to consider a contract needs atleast $16 million of subsidies from Glendale, but Glendale can - at most - give $6 million, and even that’s pushing it. They would have to cut basic government services - trash collection, etc - to prop up Hockey in the Desert.
What’s more, Bettman and the NHL openly violated state Open Meeting laws last week with the council members trying to swindle a new deal out of them.
In summary, we’re entering the Stanley Cup Finals with a franchise that is losing $40 million a year at least with no arena/arena management in place for next year, a city that can not realistically prop up a franchise anymore, Bettman who refuses to budge on his experiment, and at least $10 million dollars that’s unaccounted for.
While there’s a fanbase/arena/investors waiting in open arms.
And people wonder why hockey fans boo Bettman when he gives out the cup each year?!
If they prop this up for one more year, and Tippet leaves, with their current roster and inability to get any free agents/trades, it will be some of the worst hockey ever put on ice. Guaranteed.
That’s because you always detect a bit of sour grapes. You said the same thing when I criticized the acquisition of Iginla, or have criticized the Penguins in any way, shape or form over the years.
I hope now at least you can understand why I didn’t want Iginla on my team and that it had nothing to do with jealousy.
It’s not sour grapes, it’s schadenfreude. I know a lot of Penguins fans and the vast majority of them have that same sense of entitlement and superiority that you have; that belief that everyone else is just jealous and any negative criticism must be based in that because they’re infallible. That, more than anything, has led me to take pleasure in the fan base’s suffering.
It’s not that it means nothing, it’s just that it’s a small sample size. It could mean nothing, or it could also be an indicator of future events.
I wouldn’t rest my argument either way solely on the results of the regular season match-up any more than I would completely dismiss them as irrelevant, but they can be used as part of a larger statistical argument.
That depends upon which statistics you look at and deem important for winning a game and/or series. NJ is a far better possession team (as a side note, take a look at the top 3 teams in Fenwick Close% on April 22nd: Kings, Blackhawks and Boston) and the best in the League at preventing shots (again, take note of the placement of the other teams in the Final 4). That’s the recipe for playoff success.
You’re free to disagree, and I’m sure you and others will, and I’d be happy to have the hypothetical discussion in more detail, but again, this isn’t really the time or place.
Ditto.
That isn’t my claim at all, as I’ve tried to make clear.
Also, NYI and OTT have no bearing on the conversation.
It’s good to know there are at least some objective Penguins fans out there.
As I’ve heard it put, “In the NHL, when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, the immovable object usually wins.”
Exactly. The whole Crosby calling Iginla thing was too much like the situation with LeBron James and the Heat. It was fun to see them lose, fantastic to see them swept.
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Ditto.
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Except I don’t like Pittsburgh. I’ve never even implied that I did. I’m a neutral observer, and have never claimed a team would manifestly beat another team.
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You can’t claim “your” team would beat them just because Boston destroyed them. See: New York Islanders, Ottawa Senators.
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That isn’t my claim at all, as I’ve tried to make clear.
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Then it makes the following quotation very confusing, particularly the word “too”:
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FWIW, the Devils would have beaten the Penguins too, had they faced them.
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If assertions about outcomes of games not played were not allowed, 99% of internet sports talk would disappear.
Soulmurk did correctly point out that the Penguins trade deadline maneuvers padded their strengths and ignored their weaknesses. That gives a little credibility to other assertions about which teams would match up well against those weaknesses.
Boston beat the Penguins. Soulmurk thinks the Devils would have matched up well and beaten them “too”. What is confusing about that?
Fair enough, you didn’t. Apologies for assuming you were a Penguins fan, but under the circumstance you can understand why I’d make that assumption.
You haven’t, but neither have you addressed any of the data I’ve supplied to support my claim except to dismiss the regular season head-to-head results as meaningless.
If you want to disagree with my assessment, so be it. If you want to dismiss my argument because it’s purely hypothetical and there’s no way to prove it either way, do as you will. But don’t pass it off as homer bias just because the team in question happens to be one I root for, especially when I’ve taken the time to provide some actual data to support my claim. Dispel the data or the its value or counter it (again, probably not here as this has already become a thread-jack), but don’t just dismiss it.
Overlooked in all this is that I’ve also said that I thought the Rangers could have beaten the Penguins. I despise the Rangers a thousand times more than Guinastasia believes I hate the Penguins, and won’t give them a shred of credit except grudgingly and only if it’s earned beyond a doubt in my mind.
Just as tim-n-va points out, I’m not saying that the Devils are as good as Boston, because they’re not. I’m just saying that I believe that the Devils match up very well against the Penguins, citing their advantages in advanced stats and previous meetings, and how NJ’s strengths are precisely what the Penguins have struggled with for several years now, and concluding that they, too, would have beaten the Penguins had they met in the playoffs.
Bettman hates Canada, period. A new franchise in Canada would probably be ten times more sucessful than it would in the south, but Bettman doesn’t want to admit it. With a few exceptions, hockey’s just not that popular in the South. The best example I can think of is Dallas, but that was before Bettman’s tenure, and that was mostly due to Modano.
Well, by the way the wind’s blowing, it looks like the Nordiques are back - or the Seattle Whatevers. Pure speculation, but that’s what the tea leaves say. NHL has no interest in owning the Yotes for another year, they can’t find a buyer beyond a strange company called RSE (which is like a paper corporation that came from nowhere and has no experience owning sports teams or managing arenas), and the City of Glendale is finalizing their yearly budget on Friday with a $6 million allocated subsidy for the arena when RSE - and all independent analyses - suggest they’d need at least a $15 million subsidy to break even. What it looks like to the cynical observer is that Bettman and the NHL are setting up the City of Glendale to fail, so they have someone to point to when they are forced to relocate the franchise.
Oh, and CoG may vote for another company to manage the arena by June 25, which would effectively make the Coyotes homeless.
Meanwhile, there’s a bunch of weird under the surface stuff happenings in Quebec City. The Colisee is undergoing renovations and it has a bunch of months next year with nothing scheduled and nobody will say why. And the PKP - the likely ownership group - had a routine business conference yesterday that they instead turned into a conversation on the Nordiques.
Is this finally the year the NHL cuts their losses…?
Sure seems unlikely that there’ll be a team in Arizona for the long haul. If they do move to Quebec, it’ll honk up the realignment that they just did (although Seattle wouldn’t really be an issue for that).