Flowers on first date: the key for me is knowing if it’s a flowers-type date. If you are wearing a suit and I’m wearing a dress, some simple flowers wouldn’t be amiss. Also, are you a flowers type guy? That is, do you have any sense of how flowers communicate? I’m actually getting the sense that you aren’t, FWIW. If you don’t have a sense in your heart of when roses or daisies or a mixed bouquet would send the right signal, I’d stay away from the flowers. Also, flowers send a very strong “this is a Date” signal. Most of my better relationships started out more like “this is dinner & a movie and we’ll see how it goes.”
Holding doors: I will give major points for a guy who knows how to open doors gracefully, allowing me to enter the building/room/car gracefully. If you do it well, like it’s second nature, I’m a huge fan.
Offering to buy dinner on the first date is good, insisting would be bad. If I were insisting back, that would be an indication I wanted to keep things more casual for the time being.
Asking for a date is good.
Listening to problems is good. I agree with the comment upthread. You listening to my problems is never going to move you down the list, but if I am telling you problems about my huge crush on another guy, the ship has already sailed.
Genuinely nice behaviors that I appreciate: being on time, not being an aggressive driver, not making comments about other women’s appearance either pro or con, good spelling and grammar, not watching the TV behind me during dinner, making sure you know directions and where we’re going to park so it’s not a hassle getting where we’re going, not insisting on finding a free place to park out of pure, unbridled cheapness, saying something nice about my appearance, and being honest about when I can expect to hear from you again.
Dude, but just sharing my own trial-and-error observations which may (or may not) be of any help:
Anytime I have to call into question anything that might be construed as ‘trying too hard’ on my end, I try to tone it down a notch. The women I was actively trying to impress tended to either be ambiguous/disinterested because looking back, I probably WAS ‘trying too hard’ one way or another. But when I started evaluating my actions, and thinking, “I’m not going to do this, it’ll come off as clingy/lame” I’d get women who DID have an interest in me. Its not so much acting like a ‘Jerk’ but maybe just being more subtle about your desires.
One thing I’ve learned to enjoy about dating is the truth about risk/reward of blind dates. I think a lot of people in their minds overstate the ‘risk’ part of it. Let’s face it- nobody likes being humiliated by being turned down by somebody they were attracted to (i.e. I always like them but they never like me). One of the great things about a blind date is the other person’s attitude is potentially a blank slate, but even if you flop the very worst thing that could happen is the person is totally uninterested in you. That’s the biggest ‘risk’ in my opinion. The potential reward could be the best person you ever met in your life. In my view this is like playing a million dollar lottery with tickets that cost a penny each.
I see a lot of scorn in “The Nice Guy” toward “Jerks” who attract women by using tactics they themselves think of as wrong/stupid/unfair/etc. Its the tendency to trap yourself in a narrow box of personal rules and get pissed that other people don’t have the same scruples. My own observations about guys with enviable girlfriends (pretty, smart, etc) is they were often willing to get shot down often and for as lucky, smooth or studly for a guy to seem when other guys see his girlfriend, the other guys may not be seeing how many times he got turned down/blown off/laughed out of the room by women. My brother is a good example of this- I used be kind of jealous at how gorgeous his girlfriends are until I learned the not-so-secret of it: he only hits on what he considers the prettiest woman in the room/work/etc. To me, it would have seemed a waste of time to go after women out of my league but as I’ve said before there’s very little at stake by trying. During my brother’s birthday I saw this tactic in action as he got rebuffed by one female partygoer after another. This tactic might seem rather pathetic from one perspective but it definitely works for him, and even though the rewards are few, he’s persistent enough to meet women interested in him fairly consistently.
Well, the only problem with gifts is that there’s this thing called reciprocity–in most societies a gift creates a visceral sense of obligation. It’s just kind of the way most of us are wired. For little piffling gifts, the obligation is minimal. We can do some little piffling thing for you, or even just ignore it. But a medium to large gift…unless there’s an established relationship there, it’s weird and feels like some sort of pressure to create a deeper relationship than we may want. That’s part of the reason there’s a $10 price limit on gift exchanges at work, to avoid that sort of thing.
So flowers are by and large harmless, within certain limits. Like I said, they should be something small and inexpensive, and they shouldn’t be something that sends a message inappropriate for the occasion. A dozen red roses is right out for a first date, both for reasons of expense and message. And if a woman has told you she doesn’t like flowers, you lose extra points because you weren’t listening to explicit instructions.
Basically, if a gesture or comment or whatever would make you uncomfortable in a similar situation, it’s a bad idea. Women are just people, after all.
I’ve had guys who have used flowers as manipulation (and a lot of women demand flowers as manipulation - i.e. I won’t forgive you for whatever slight without flowers - I know men who don’t give them because of that. Fortunately for me, Brainiac4 was on the giving end of “guilt flowers” and I was on the receiving end of “manipulation flowers” - flowers aren’t big around here). They can have a lot of baggage…and, as implied, can carry a lot of meaning. They also do ratchet up the evening to Date, rather than “lets get together and see if we click.” (Guys who use flowers as manipulation expect quid pro quo from flowers - it might be as simple as a next date - ‘but I brought you flowers!’). I think less experienced women (i.e. generally younger, more romantic) are going to be more responsive of flowers. Women who have been around the block - we carry baggage with us and it can manifest in strange ways - we may have a low tolerance for romantic gestures because in the past we’ve been manipulated by romantic gestures. We may need more phone calls to check in after a date because previous boyfriends have been more or less AWOL - OR we may find a phone call the next day to be a sign of neediness - because the last boyfriend we had had toddler levels of separation anxiety.
If you were gracious about the whole thing (and it sounds like you were) the paying thing probably didn’t have anything to do with why you didn’t click. And it might have not been you at all - we see things from the lens of ‘its all about us’ - it may have been a realization that her son wasn’t ready…or something about her own values that don’t mesh with yours.
@CrazyCatLady: Not that it probably matters much, but I realized after that technically, I misspoke on this.
We met via the net and decided to have coffee one morning. Before we actually met, I told her I had to help my brother move some things and I let her choose—either we could meet before I helped him or we could meet after. She chose before.
So I met her, we talked, it went okay. Just okay, I thought—she was attractive but didn’t seem super interested. I left, helped my bro, etc.
Later, we talked and decided to go out on an extended date and that’s when I brought her flowers. She always referred to coffee as our first date; I always thought of it as a prologue, a chat to see if we wanted to date. She was pissy about that, later: she thought I was using my bro as an excuse. Had she chosen “after,” maybe it would have developed into a longer get-together, i.e. a date.
@Dangerosa: Oh, we dated after the restaurant incident. But it was strange. Long story but basically she told me one night that her son needed a daddy and she wanted to choose a “nice guy” for the job. That didn’t sound good to me: not that I would rule out kids etc. (though hers was a case). Rather, I think she was “sacrificing” herself for her kid, wasn’t that into me, etc. Eventually, the relationship died with a faaaiiiiiintttt whimper. And a booty call. But I didn’t see that email till the next day. By which time she’d changed her mind. And I haven’t heard from her since.
@Incubus: The lottery ticket example is apt, I think. I don’t push myself hard enough or take enough risks. That used to be b/c my ego was fragile. I think now it’s more because I’m aware of the long term. E.g. if I work with someone whom I find attractive, I know that if she shoots me down I’ll see her and be reminded and that could make work uncomfortable. My skin is probably thick enough but hers may not be, etc.
In my opinion, that is where most of the problems with dating come from. Many of us do not receive any guidance on these things, yet society places such an unnecessarily high importance on them. So we take our cues from nonsensical movies, fairy tales, or other creations of the imagination that have no applicability to the real world. Often times that is what births the Nice Guy, a normally well-meaning dude at the start, who sees one too many romantic comedies and then gets disillusioned and bitter when he realizes his own life isn’t one.
Male. Every person and situation is different, there’s no real way to give any authoritative answers, but I will give ya my two cents (actual value may vary).
Flowers - Bad. It can be seen as trying to “buy” her affection with gifts, which is not the impression you want to give. Sometimes it can be seen in an even worse light, but that normally points to their own baggage. Gifts come after the (mutual) affection is there. If you are out on the first date, and it is going exceptionally well, a spur of the moment purchase (something small such as one flower) from a street vendor can come across correct. The idea is to have a memory tied to a gift, not just give something to give something. Flowers with no meaning have been done to death.
Doors - Hold them open. For her, for the people behind you, for the person with their arms full, why not hold open a door? It is a polite gesture with nearly no negative aspects. If anyone objects to it, it says a whole lot more about them than it does you.
Dinner - Depends on context. If it is a traditional first date, unless otherwise noted, the person who asked offers to take the check. Generally that will be you, but if she wants to pay half (study the non-verbal cues) let her. Better yet, say the next time can be her treat; which can open things up (what restaurant she would like to take you to, whether she wants to go out again, perhaps put her in a position to comfortably ask you out, etc.).
Making the first move - Yes. It doesn’t matter how she responds to it, if you would like to date her you should make the first move. If you wait for other people to make the things that you want happen, you will be waiting an awful lot.
Listening to problems - Depends on the situation and the problems. I am going to approach it from the perspective of listening to her romantic problems, as that is the approach most Nice Guys take. If you are pursuing her romantically, and you have made that abundantly clear, then you shouldn’t listen to her romantic problems if you want to continue romantically at this point in time. If you are willing to back off to become friends, or you are currently only friends, then it is up to you. Don’t listen with the intention of putting in work that will pay off later, its immoral in my opinion and almost always a waste of time. If you and her are trying to carry on a romantic relationship, and she brings up romantic issues that don’t pertain to you, it is generally a bad sign. It usually shows that she has unresolved kinks to iron out, and is not ready for what you are laying on the table. I like to give one or two hints (i.e. “I don’t think I should be the one to talk to about this, maybe you could discuss it with your [girl]friends later.”) and if it persists then you have to make some decisions.
For a bit of general advice, be very careful that you are not giving women way too much influence in these hypotheticals. You are evaluating potential actions by how a woman may perceive them, when for the most part you should be taking the action that you think is right. This is where a lot of the derision for Nice Guys comes from - they are constantly behaving in ways where it seems like they are doing or saying what they think the girl wants to see or hear, when in all actuality the girl is waiting to find out what the guy is actually like. It is infuriating for them to see this go on (believe me, 9 times out of 10 they know), how can they discover they are compatible with you if they never get a genuine look at you. Its not fair to them or you, and it can spark the bitch fuse in some women. Don’t over-think things and worry about what the right action is, worry about whether you are taking the lobotomyboy63 action. Remember too that you are evaluating them, it’s a two-way street. If you make the first move and she thinks you are pathetic for doing so, then to hell with her; you are trying to find the woman you want. If you want a woman that wants flowers on the first date, then damnit better bring them flowers and find out.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I don’t recall seeing many real-life dating situations around me while I was growing up. If I did, they were outdated by the time I was ready to date. Um, well, prom…yeah, you bring flowers for that. Most of us guys were just trying to bluff our way through it. :smack:
Another aspect of flowers that I think probably has some weight: who’s giving them? If an average guy has a date with a woman, she might see them as loaded with demands or something. OTOH, she might lurv to get them from Brad Pitt.
BTW I’m not in love with the idea of giving flowers…I just keep posting it as an example.
Not every girl finds the same things endearing. By soliciting this way, you’ll gather a list so long it’ll be meaningless.
Your appeal is the sum of many factors, not just the things you do. Even if I could give you a list of things that would endear me to you, it would not guarantee I’d want to be more than friends with you.
This list approach isn’t good for dealing with individuals or for the long-term. At some point, you’ll need to start thinking for yourself.
People manifest the same qualities in a variety of ways. Just because you help an old lady carry groceries across the street doesn’t mean you’re nice. Likewise, just because you don’t help an old lady carry groceries across the street doesn’t mean you aren’t nice.
Let’s say I create a list of gestures assured of making any girl melty and absolutely frothy at the thought of dating you. You do everything on the list, but each and every time she gets distracted by a sudden lunar eclipse and never sees you helping the handicapped elderly Vietnam-veteran puppy soliciting magazine subscriptions door-to-door to help refugees in Rwanda. Then what are you gonna do?
As for your list: Flower(s) on a first date, good or bad?
God, please no. I had a first date with a guy I’d liked for years, and the flowers he gave me made me feel really embarrassed. Flowers scream either FIRST DATE or COUPLE MAKING UP AFTER A FIGHT. I didn’t like the attention they drew to us.
Holding doors for her, good or bad?
You get Good Person Points, not Good Potential Boyfriend Points.
Please do not throw your coat over puddles for me to step on, or push my chair in at the dinner table.
Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad?
Generous if I’m the one who asked you out.
More or less expected if you’re the one who asked me out.
Obnoxious if you persist with your insistence despite my insistence.
Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad?
Far better than never having the nerve to ever approach me.
Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship?
If you’re a sympathetic ear and suggest solutions/stress reduction methods, I’ll love you for it.
If you go into “Here’s how to solve all your problems!” mode, then I’ll be a little less grateful because chances are I just wanted to vent.
If I sense you’re half-listening or not listening at all, go FOAD.
Part A:
Flowers are okay, but being a pragmatist, unless I can put them in water right away, I’ll find them to be more nuisance than romantic on a first date.
Holding doors for me - good. Letting me hold them too if I get there first - also good.
Offering to buy dinner - good. Insisting on buying dinner - getting a little aggressive there.
Making the first move - good.
Listening to problems - good, I suppose. I’d like to think we were both talking about our problems at an appropriate stage of the relationship.
Part B:
being genuinely interested in me
being considerate
being nice to me
not ditching other people to see me - he should be nice to everyone he knows and not just break plans with them for me
She may be in love with the idea of Brad Pitt bringing her flowers, but if it were to actually occur she may respond quite a bit differently. Lots of people love having crushes that aren’t necessarily rooted in reality because they enjoy dreaming about this or that, or just love the feeling of being in love with something. If Brad Pitt did bring a girl flowers it would likely raise a host of questions, why me? What is he after? Does he want to take this too fast? So on and so forth, no different than a regular man bringing flowers will often raise questions in a woman’s mind. If Brad Pitt actually did bring flowers it would make the situation more real, and he would cease to be “Brad Pitt”. There would quickly be a new proverbial “Brad Pitt” taking up shop in the woman’s mind. It’s often thrown around that creepiness is subjective, the uglier the person the creepier the actions, and that may have traces of truth in it; but even if better looking people get more leeway, they don’t usually get an automatic pass on what individual people find as creepy. I’ve had girls, classically good looking and otherwise, give me elaborate gifts at unusual stages of a courtship (in one case the courtship was non-existent) and either way I felt it was slightly off. Certainly not deal-breakers, but it was something to take note off at the beginning. I think the way you do things is far more important than what you look like. To use your flower example, if you give flowers in an expecting way it comes off creepy; if you give flowers in a self-assured and confident way it can come off as sweet. Better looking people are just more likely to act in a self-assured and confident way.
This one sentence perfectly sums up the entire post I was going to make. What separates a nice guy from a Nice Guy isn’t always obvious actions. It’s often just his vibe, the subtle cues he gives out that affect how I perceive his actions. It’s like when a coworker says something to you that seems really rude, but you realize that your best friend could have said the exact same thing and you wouldn’t have thought twice about it. It ain’t what you do, it’s the way that you do it.
Flower(s) on a first date, good or bad?
Old fashioned and kind of desperate. It really frames it as a “date” with all the associated baggage, and I’d rather have my first time going out with someone be more of a casual “hanging out” kind of thing. If you want to give me a gift, wait until you know me a bit and can make it something personal.
Holding doors for her, good or bad?
Just act like you would around someone you aren’t dating. Holding doors open is always polite and I’ll do the same for you. Rushing to open doors is kind of weird. It especially weird me out when people jump of the car to open my car door…like I can’t do it myself or something.
Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad?
It’s nice as long as you do it the same way you would buy dinner with friends- just a simple “I got it” is all it takes. If we go someplace after dinner I will probably want to pay for that and would expect you not to put up a fight about that.
Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad?
Good. I can be pretty aggressive, but some part of me still wants the guy to make the first move.
Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship?
What does this even mean? I have sex with people I’m attracted to. All the listening in the world won’t change if I’m attracted to you or not. But if we are entering a relationship, yeah, I hope you won’t sit around sighing and rolling your eyes when I talk about my bad day.
Part B: Ladies, what good (genuinely nice guy) behaviors endear a man to you while not excluding him from romantic consideration?
Treat service people well. Tip generously.
Part A: Flowers on a first date: awkward. Thanks for giving me something that will slowly wither away before my eyes. (I don’t really like non-potted flowers…). Even if I did, first date is tacky. Surprises are key. Valentine’s day is a commercial. April 14th or August 5th are good times to sweep me off my feet - since I won’t see them coming.
Holding doors for her, good or bad? I’m dating a guy who always holds doors, but I didn’t realize it for the first few dates. Why? He’s smooth about it, he’s usually a half step ahead of me. But he never goes out of his way to do it - that’s just awkward and bad.
Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad? Good in initial courting; bad if you try to wrestle check from her. Bad if you can’t afford it. Bad if you’re not being sincere. Bad if she never offers to get it next time.
Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad? Very, very good. In a month or so of courting, we’ll split paying for things, we may be staying overnights, we’ll be spending time with each others’ friends - so there will be a comfort level. But making the first move shows strength of character, determination, and testosterone. I know what I want, and I make it evident with how I flirt. You make it evident by kissing me first, or holding my hand first. Making the first move is bad with more than 2 drinks in the picture, however.
Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship? I’m not sure what this means, but I hope he’s a good listener. And I know that I am. But telling me on the first date how hot the waitress is or that your mother died in a horrific accident - complete with gory details - isn’t the best way to start off.
Part B: Ladies, what good (genuinely nice guy) behaviors endear a man to you while not excluding him from romantic consideration?
Humor, patience, intelligence, kindness (in no particular order). So long as the niceness has me at the top of the list (eg his volunteer work doesn’t take up twice as much time as I do) then it’s usually good.
Part A: Flower(s) on a first date, good or bad?
Eh. If we’ve known each other for a while, not very good (I don’t much like flowers). Points for trying, less points for not knowing me. More points if he’s picking me at my place (I can turn around and get the flowers in water), lots less points if I’m supposed to be holding onto a bunch of spiky expensive dead plants through, say, a movie and dinner. I generally consider it as a thoughtful if a bit cliché gesture.
Holding doors for her, good or bad? If he knows how to do it and especially if I see him holding doors for others, good. If he doesn’t turn my holding one door for him into an argument, good. If I see that he’s doing it “because it’s what you’re supposed to do,” very bad.
Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad? Insisting, bad. I want an equal. If you buy dinner, I buy the tickets. Equals doesn’t mean “everything split in half,” but please let’s both have the pleasure of inviting the other.
Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad? I’m old fashioned… :o (no, that’s not the BJ smiley). I’ll mention I like movies, I’ll mention which ones that are out right now I’m interested in seeing, but if you actually ask The Question of “hey, maybe we could go see XYZ on Saturday?” you’ll get so many points I’m pretty much in the bag.
Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship? … God, I hope I’m not such a PITA to be burdening you with them on a first date… I mean, people should be able to talk about the bad things in their lifes along with the good ones… “how was your day?” “don’t ask, supermegaboss was at it again”… but there’s a point and place for it.
Part B: Ladies, what good (genuinely nice guy) behaviors endear a man to you while not excluding him from romantic consideration?
Seeing him be nice to others is a good one. Calling his Mom in advance of a visit to ask should he be bringing any groceries for example. Having a Mom that takes advantage of the call to grab his ear through the phone for an hour is a minus, but it’s a minus against her, not necessarily against him
**
Part A: Flower(s) on a first date, good or bad?** - bad, about a 3 for me on the scale you gave. I’d think he was trying too hard. Flowers after a successful first date, just say “thanks, I had a great time and would like to see you again”, I’d think was a lovely, thoughtful gesture - but only if it was a small, non-extravagant bouquet, otherwise I’d be suspicious of his motives. Holding doors for her, good or bad? - good, a 10 - but only if he’s also holding them for other people when necessary. That proves he’s genuinely polite and not just trying to impress me. Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad? - good, a 7 or 8, on a first date, if you asked me out. When I was dating (I’m married now) I had a rule that the one who did the asking paid - seems only fair! But after that, I think there should be room for flexibility. I may want to treat you occasionally! Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad? - good, it’s always nice to know someone’s interested! I’d say that’s an 8, though I had, in my single days, no problem making the first move myself. Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship? - early on in the relationship, I’d query why she’s whinging on at you when she should be focusing on letting you see her at her best. Later on, yes, of course I’d like to able to share my problems with you - but it’s a two-way street and I’d hope you could vent to me, too.
**
Part B: Ladies, what good (genuinely nice guy) behaviors endear a man to you while not excluding him from romantic consideration?**
Being straight with me and not playing games. Either you like me or you don’t. Start messing me around, trying to “keep me interested” (the treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen approach) and you won’t see me for dust.
Taking an interest me. Ask questions and listen to the answers, because you really want to find out all about me.
Treat my family and friends with respect. You don’t have to like them, but you do have to be polite.
Show you’re keen to see the relationship progress, but don’t rush things. IME, guys who are desperate to make a commitment have issues will later rear up and bite me on the backside, which is why I’m suspicious of extravagant gestures. When a genuinely nice guy makes a commitment, you know he means it, because he wouldn’t risk hurting you by starting something he wasn’t sure was right.
Part A: Flower(s) on a first date, good or bad?
Could be either. Someone shows up on a first date with a hugely expensive bunch of roses or something along those lines, bad: looks desperate and try-hard. Shows up with a small bunch of flowers that he knows I like, sweet.
Holding doors for her, good or bad?
If it’s a general politeness thing, good (ie if you hold the door for me, but let it go in the face of the person walking in behind me, you haven’t really helped your cause).
Insisting on buying dinner, good or bad?
Kind of depends on how insistent the insisting is. If you make a big deal out of paying, you’re just going to piss me off, because it looks like you’re expecting something out of the ‘investment’.
Making the first move (i.e. contacting for a date), good or bad?
Generally fine: if it’s massively pushy or overly insistent, though, not so good. A friendly conversation or phone call is one thing; making me think I’ve got a psycho stalker is another. (And, for the love of god, ask me via phone or face to face - unless you know me, email or SMS looks like you’re scared of me - and I know you’re putting yourself on the line in asking someone out, but it’s nice that you think enough of them to actually do that, you know?)
Listening to her problems, likely to end any possibility of a romantic relationship?
Not as far as I’m concerned - but it’s really good when it’s a two-way street, you should feel free to talk to me as well. (And I’d like to hope that, on a first date, I wouldn’t be monopolising the conversation with a bunch of pointless whines too.)
Part B: Ladies, what good (genuinely nice guy) behaviors endear a man to you while not excluding him from romantic consideration?
Being a civilised human being. Being polite to waitstaff when we’re out at dinner (polite, not sucky/obsequious or rude); holding doors for others, not just me; having a sense of humour that’s not based on denigrating others. Not telling me how much of a nice guy he is; actions speak louder than words, and I’ll make the call on whether I find someone to be nice or not.
**
Brandon**- please, please post more often. I couldn’t find any points to snip out of this for brevity as they’re all so good. That puts me in the awkward position of saying “This +1” to the last three posts of yours that I’ve read. L-boy. Any attempt to find out ‘the rules’ that will ‘make’ you attractive is “Nice Guy” stuff.
A(flowers)+B(meal)=C(she has to like you) is the “Nice Guy” formula. It does not work in the real world. No more than a woman deciding that; A(giggling)+B(baking cookies)=C(you have to like her). Please feel free to adjust A & B in either formula as long as you realise the fallacy - No one ever* has to* like you.
There is either a mutual attraction, in which case everything else can be negotiated with a little adult common sense, or there is not.
It could possibly happen that a one-sided attraction will develop into romance, but it’s rare. Trying to force it with little tricks and manipulations (on either side) just comes off as creepy and off-putting.
Did **lobotomyboy63 ** or any other person in this thread state that doing A & B means that someone has to like you? Why are you building this strawman?
“Holding the door for her” is not at all something I mind doing, nor do I mind doing it for ppl behind her. I did meet a woman once—an acquaintance of the ex- who was a real libber—who mentioned, in a casual convo, that she could get her own door. Then, in Saturday’s “Strangest Date Ever,” the woman kind of jabbed at me for it. “Oooh, such a gentleman!” she said, mildly sarcastically.
Looking back, I should have stopped doing it for her, the principle being that during the date I should listen to what she wants and doesn’t and respect that, even if it’s weird or alien to me. Later, I can evaluate the date and whether I’d like to see more of her or not, factoring that in.
I brushed it off and continued to open the door from her as the date progressed. She didn’t react negatively a second time.
Now I’ll grant you that that woman is far from normal. But I’ve often thought that in this age of “equality of the sexes” it’s interesting that the tradition carries on. Frankly there are some issues like that which have always seemed a bit hypocritical to me. In this day and age, I’d be crazy to make a woman think I perceived her as less than capable (e.g. paying for the date issue), but if I didn’t get the door for her I wouldn’t be surprised if she complained to her friends about it.
I’ll own some weirdness on the subject, but speaking of the ex-…
She happened to be on business in L.A. WHILE the riots broke out. When she returned she told me she was really pissed at her boss. He wasn’t on the trip with her—he called and said she could get out of there any time, he’d send her a ticket to the airport, etc.
“Does he think I can’t take care of myself? Does he think I can’t evaluate my situation where I am and make that decision? Clearly he thinks because I’m a woman, I don’t know what I’m doing.”
Okay, there’s a word for women who get snotty about someone holding a door for them, or their boss making arrangements for the cut a business trip short during a dangerous situation, and it ain’t libber.
Bitches.
If you were sprinting ahead to get the door for her and letting it slam into people behind, she’d have a point. If the ex had been on a personal trip and her boss had made those arrangements, she’d have a point. But the situations as presented? Bitches.
Crazy-ass bitches, to be specific. And there’s no predicting how crazy-ass bitches will react to anything because like I said in the other thread, hellooooo, they’re crazy.
