I’m sure some will pop into this thread to tell me such sweeping statements should not be made and perhaps they are right. Nonetheless personal experience has taught me otherwise (both to myself and watching other people).
What puzzles me is talking to women (a fair crossection) they will pine for a chance to meet/be with a nice, normal, honest guy. Yet when it comes down to it those are about the last guys they will stick with.
Originally I chalked this dodgy nature up to youth. In your teens and twenties such waffling is probably to be expected (from guys too). I figured well on into the thirties people mellow, wisdom starts to assert itself and things would settle down. So far I am hard pressed to find a woman who is like that. Indeed, they seem to be getting worse. As if they see their youth slipping away and are going to go hog wild while they can (a feminine version of the male mid-life crisis).
I have not only witnessed it among numerous co-workers and several unattached female friends but also had the misfortune to date two of them (and a close call on a third but I got away in time). A statistically significant sample? I’m pretty sure it isn’t but it is large enough in my view to think it is fairly common or I live in the twilight zone.
FTR: ALL of those female friends will tell any other woman what a great guy I am. They tell me some woman will be lucky to have me. Allowing for friends just saying nice things I know I do get a fair share of dates (wouldn’t mind more but can’t complain). No date has run away in horror from me. And of the women I dated and broken up with I think you’d have to go back to college to find one who actually disliked me at the end. Many remain friends. My point is not to try to break my arm patting myself on the back but to say I am not a mutant. Sure I can be a jerk with the best of them but as these things are reckoned not too often (and apparently not often enough)
As you might have guessed this rant is prompted by being in proximity to yet another of these women. Dating someone and having it go nowhere is fine…sad but fine. It happens. But watching this woman go back and actively persue the jerk I spent the last three months hearing bad things about (from her, her friends…even two bartenders who kicked him out more than once) is a bit much to bear yet again. And this woman is a fair way into her 40’s so being a silly kid is lost as an explanation.
And so, at the end of my powers of understanding I turn to the crowd who knows all. WTF gives here?
The last first… she has issues… don’t make them your problem.
Being nice is not the only or most important qualifier for a successful relationship. In my opinion, being perceived as “nice enough” usually qualifies. It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.
<grabs the big brush and a paint can>
Women are more likely to fool themselves into thinking they want nice guys. Men are more honest in their desire for good looks & boobies over substance.
<puts down brush and can>
Sometimes people go back to their exes for reasons that have nothing to do with their currents. I know it’s frustrating, but maybe she’s thinking she didn’t give him enough chances, or he’s done some begging, or maybe he’s really changed (yeah, right!). Looking for an explanation for her behavior will only make *you * crazy. Have a beer and try to focus on your *next * girlfriend.
The last thing first… she has issues… don’t make them your problem.
Being nice is not the only or most important qualifier for a successful relationship. In my opinion, being perceived as “nice enough” usually qualifies. It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.
The observations on the current (or rather currently ex) girlfriend are well taken and I agree. If such occurrences were the exception and not the rule I’d be far less worked up over it. Trying to keep an optimistic outlook is starting to get hard. I do not want to become a cranky old cynic so I can focus on the next girlfriend with a clear heart.
The sick thing about it all is I actually saw this last relationship improve twice…both times when I was a bit of a jerk (kidjanot…and I did not do it on purpose either…just random jerkiness we all stumble into on occasion). I really just do not get that.
That’s pretty whack, Whack.
sorry, I could not resist.
Perhaps the relationship improved at that moment because you apologized and tried to make amends. Perhaps in the future you could try “amending” behavior on a more regular basis?
Because the jerk has a set of balls and is unconsciously viewed by the woman as being capable of killing animals and other men to provide food in exchange for sexual rights.
Meanwhile, the nice guy is a simpering underconfident wimp who doesn’t get why he does get it, or any for that matter.
(Okay, that’s the over the top answer, but seriously, women who admit it have informed me that they like the sense of confidence, even if it is over the top, of the jerk, while the “nice guy” is too often milktoast.)
Long ago I got involved with a bad girl. I ended our relationship years ago, because I knew she was nothing but trouble. But I still don’t think I’m over her. Being around her was one of the most intense experiences I’ve ever had, and I think about her frequently to this day.
The point is that danger is sexy. “Badness” is sexy. Most people don’t like too much safety. We like people who push us past our limits and force us into new territory, even if it’s dangerous. Think about that the next time a woman dumps you for a violent drug dealer. In a way, you can’t really blame her.
I (being a cute, twenty something year old female) have a friend who is one of these self described “nice guys”. Known him for years and also knows he has a major crush on me. Treats me right. Will spend money on me. Feel fairly comfortable around him myself. Seems like a decent boyfriend, huh?
I feel zero sexual chemisty with him. Can’t explain it really. But some reasons may be that this dude NEVER talks. When I email him (we live in seperate states now) and even in person I have to start almost all the conversations and it feels almost like a chore getting him to go into any detail about anything that’s on his mind. This dude also is a little on the misogynists side even if he doesn’t realize it. I mean I know girls and guys are different but not THAT different. It’s annoying how he treats girls as if we’re all the same and then he gets in these weird rants about girls only wanting “jerks” and talks about how he’ll act like a jerk just to see if he can get a girls attention.
I wish he would loosen up, not worry so much about females, and maybe get some more hobbies that are interesting (all he does is work). So yeah, what someone said about guys have a pair.
My “nice guy” friend is still single, moping around about women only liking jerks while I go off and have threesomes with this other guy I know who isn’t a “jerk” but actually TALKS about various things and has more then enough confidence to spark my interest.
A not insignificant percentage of self-acclaimed “nice guys” aren’t actually nice guys. Instead, they’re guys who have taken on a martyr’s mantle, using that, not the fact that they have no personalities, or are clingy and dependant, or are attentive to the point of being a stalker, unwilling to settle for obtainable women and are instead holding out for a trophy girlfriend, or spend their whole lives feeling sorry for themselves, or maybe are all of these things, as the excuse why no girls want them.
Given what a self-called “nice guy” might really be like, some women avoid all men like that to avoid the guys who call themselves nice. Do these women miss out? Oh sure. But at least “jerks” are more up front about who they are most of the time - they can’t help but be- so there are fewer surprises.
I like guys who are really nice, but not the whiny, clingy, stalker-martyrs passing themselves off as nice.
Ugh! Don’t ever let a woman do this for you. I can’t tell you why really, just that it never seems to work.
I asked a female friend about a certain friend of hers; if she was single or not; and she said “Yeah! you want me to put in a good word for you?”
To which I said “Uh, no. You just introduce me and I’ll handle the rest.”
Also if you’re in your thirties you should know this by now;(but I’ll say it anyway.) If the girl you’re with keeps talking about her old boyfriend, even in a pejorative way; then it’s best to keep your distance from such women.
ON a side note. I got this from a female comedian I can’t remeber who but it went something like this.
“I used to only date assholes because I wasn’t attracted to “nice guys” untill I realized that assholes only become bigger assholes after you date them for a while. But nice guys will just “normal” off”*
Ok…doubtless there are some guys like you describe out there but that most assuredly is not me. I was just writing a list of your points and how I do not fit them but it comes off too narcissistic so I guess you’ll just have to take my word for it or show up at a Chicago Dopefest someday and see for yourself (is one of those happening anytime soon?).
Perhaps some of the martyr works for me…just trying it on to see how it fits. I need some way to rationalize things.
What really gets me though is the notion that jerks are preferrable because they are predictable. Have fun with that. :rolleyes:
I think SlyFrog hit the mark closest with the confidence thing. While not devoid of it I do not have the careless “confidence” exhibited by assholes either (the kind of guy who gropes his date ten minutes after meeting her). I think I do play it too safe though and should go for the kiss (as an example) sooner than I do…it is a fine balance I have yet to get really good at detecting.
After half a century on this planet, this is everything I know about women:
Women like confident men.
Now, Whack-A-Mole you are falling into the trap that confidence equates to some sort of sexual forwardness (e.g., “the kind of guy who gropes his date ten minutes after meeting her.”) I think it’s not that simple.
What you want to do is project the attitude of “I’m having a good time right now, all by myself. If you want to have a good time too, join me – I’ll do my best to make sure we both have a good time. If not, that’s your loss, because I’ll still enjoy myself.”
Obviously, putting that into action isn’t easy. But I can suggest, for example, instead of trying so hard to figure out what movie she wants to see, figure out what movie you want to see and try and find someone who also wants to see it.
That would put most women off immediately. That is not the kind of confidence we are talking about.
If you think that most women don’t want a life partner that is honest, decent and pleasant, you are mistaken. But it also helps if he has the insight not to lump us all into broad stereotypes.
Just because someone is a nice guy doesn’t give him an automatic pass. And there will also always be women who can become obsessed with someone who is not so nice. The same is true for some men. And there are a small minority of women so lacking in self-confidence that they are attracted only to men who confirm how worthless they are.
I think even that explanation is overly simplistic. As one of my female friends said, “Women often say that they know confidence when they see it. They are often wrong.”
In fact, I’d argue that a lot of jerks DON’T have a great deal of true confidence. That’s why they’re jerks. Unfortunately, women often think that their jerkish behavior implies genuine confidence, and they’re frequently wrong.
