Nicknames with no relation to the longer name.

[Nava]

Specifically but not 100% exclusively for Sergio. I’ve known a couple of Josés who were Chechos, but they were sons of José-called-Josecho (-cho or -txo, same pronunciation with ES or EUS spelling, is a Basque male diminutive). As it’s baby talk, it’s got to be from something which is phonetically in at least the vicinity of Checho or Checo.

[Kimstu]

@Johanna

My grandfather from Sicily was baptized Vincenzo. When he immigrated to America he changed his name to James. (My grandmother called him Jimmy). It was explained to me that James was the English equivalent for Vincenzo, but no one ever explained why.

When I grew up I met another woman whose father had immigrated from Sicily and changed his name from Vincenzo to James. We agreed that it was a thing, but again, neither of us had any idea why.

Finally out of lifelong frustration I took to Google, determined not to quit until I’d found the answer. I found it.

A shortened form of Vincenzo was Cenzo, which had a variant “Censo.” Censo, in Italian pronunciation, was thought to sound similar enough to “James” to be replaced by it. Now I want to tell the world.

:eek: Well I’ll be a son of a bobcat. Thank you for telling the world this! I myself have wondered about this phenomenon ever since I encountered, in the Boston area in the mid-1980s, the grown son of an Italian immigrant who told me that his father’s given name was originally Vincenzo, but his father’s sister undertook to determine what all the family’s “English equivalent” names should be, and came up with “James” for her brother.

Johanna, could this person have been one of your known Vincenzo-Jameses, or do I have another data point here? Don’t know where or when his immigration actually took place, but assuming it was a northeastern US port city sometime in the 1950s or 1960s, not that that’s much help.

[Nava]

@Treppenwitz

So he does. My mistake - I don’t know where I got that from.

Didn’t answer that part before going to bed… yawn Transcription. To you, it sounds like it would be written with a ck, so that’s how you wrote it; that’s how it would normally be written in English, to the extent to which English has any kind of transcription rules (it does, they’re just terribly fuzzy compared with other languages whose phonetics are less complex).

[CookingWithGas]

@Johanna

My grandfather from Sicily was baptized Vincenzo. When he immigrated to America he changed his name to James. (My grandmother called him Jimmy). It was explained to me that James was the English equivalent for Vincenzo, but no one ever explained why.

Giacomo is the equivalent of James. I am surprised that an Italian named Vincenzo would think the equivalent is anything but Vincent.

But I’m sure you already knew this.

[doreen]

@CookingWithGas

Giacomo is the equivalent of James. I am surprised that an Italian named Vincenzo would think the equivalent is anything but Vincent.

I’m surprised that you assume an Italian named Vincenzo would have ever encountered the name Vincent.If you read my post that **Johanna **was replying to, it only happens with people over a certain age - Vincenzo’s born in 1970 aren’t going by “Jimmy”. My great-uncle Jimmy was born around 1910 and probably didn’t speak English until he went to school. I was told his name was Vincent , but it probably was actually Vincenzo.

[CookingWithGas]

@doreen

I’m surprised that you assume an Italian named Vincenzo would have ever encountered the name Vincent.

I would think people with a saint’s name might know the English equivalent, but I don’t have firsthand knowledge.

[Kimstu]

@CookingWithGas

I am surprised that an Italian named Vincenzo would think the equivalent is anything but Vincent.

It doesn’t seem that surprising to me that a lot of Italian speakers might not immediately recognize English “VINN-sent” as the obvious counterpart of Italian “vin-CHAIN-zo” or its nickname “CHAIN-so”.

Anyway, as Johanna found out, the “Vincenzo-James” equivalence among Italian-American immigrants does indeed seem to have been very widespread.

[Nava]

@CookingWithGas

I would think people with a saint’s name might know the English equivalent, but I don’t have firsthand knowledge.

As they got off the boat without knowing a word of English, and perhaps encountering English for the first time in their lives? How would they?

[Ann_Hedonia]

@Qadgop_the_Mercotan

My mom had a friend named Betty; one teacher kept insisting she was Elizabeth. Betty’s mom had to go to the school to set her straight. The teacher apparently still couldn’t understand how such a thing was even possible, but apparently the principal got the idea.

My mother is another woman whose legal birth name was Betty, not Elizabeth.

[Jasmine]

My brother had a nickname in high school that had absolutely nothing to do with his given name because it was based on a behavioral attribute. This is not uncommon by any means.

[Frodo]

@Jasmine

My brother had a nickname in high school that had absolutely nothing to do with his given name because it was based on a behavioral attribute. This is not uncommon by any means.

Well if we are going that way, I’m called “Frodo” instead of my real name, by 99% of my friends, It was my nick in the BBS (yes I am old, why do you ask? :D) where I met some of them, and then the rest of were introduced to me as “Frodo” and it stuck.

Now only my wife and family and some older friends call me by my real name :).

[bob_2]

@doreen

No, it’s not the same because it’s not a matter in those cases of someone simply *calling *them by a nickname that they dislike/don’t use. No teacher has ever told “Elizabeth” that her name is really “Betty” and no employer has made “Daniel’s” paycheck out to “Danny”, causing problems at the bank.

Reminds me of a story I heard from the author, Kit Williams. He was booked on a flight between two airports in the UK but was unaware of the new security rules that required him to ‘prove’ his identity. When asked, he produced his passport, but the airline refused to allow him to board because his passport showed his real name ‘Christopher’ Williams. He had booked the flight as ‘Kit’ and the staff at the airport refused to accept that ‘Kit’ was a diminutive of Christopher.

I am not entirely sure of the outcome but I think he may have bought one of his books from a shop at the airport and showed them his photo on the cover - if he didn’t, he should have.

[Johanna]

@Kimstu

:eek: Well I’ll be a son of a bobcat. Thank you for telling the world this! I myself have wondered about this phenomenon ever since I encountered, in the Boston area in the mid-1980s, the grown son of an Italian immigrant who told me that his father’s given name was originally Vincenzo, but his father’s sister undertook to determine what all the family’s “English equivalent” names should be, and came up with “James” for her brother.

Johanna, could this person have been one of your known Vincenzo-Jameses, or do I have another data point here? Don’t know where or when his immigration actually took place, but assuming it was a northeastern US port city sometime in the 1950s or 1960s, not that that’s much help.

That’s another one. Looks like it was widespread a few generations ago, spread only by word of mouth. My family’s from Cleveland. I met the other woman whose dad had that name change in St. Louis in the early 1980s. From what my folks told me, it must have been common knowledge at one point, at least among the Italian immigrant communities in America. Could it have been true of Italian immigrants to the UK and Australia also?

[Johanna]

@CookingWithGas

Giacomo is the equivalent of James. I am surprised that an Italian named Vincenzo would think the equivalent is anything but Vincent.

But I’m sure you already knew this.

Giacomo may have been shortchanged that way. Yet somehow he turned up in that mysterious New Orleans Mardi Gras song “Iko Iko”—

Giacomo fi no ai na nay
Giacomo fi na nay

Yes, I kid.

[Royal_Nonesutch]

@Knowed_Out

Don’t know if you read Love and Rockets or not, but it’s stories about Latin Americans who used to be punk rockers and are now going through middle age. One of the characters is named Margaret. She goes by “Maggie” and “Perla.” She explained to one of her friends that when she started working as a mechanic, the other mechs called her “Maggie” and it stuck with her friends. Her family and cousins called her “Perla” because they called her that as a young girl.

Here in Poland, Margaret is Malgorzata, and the standard nickname is Gosia (pronounced “Gore-Sha”) and it also means a pearl.

Perla (the “L” is actually the Polish L with the slash thru the middle, which has a soft “W” sound, so it is pronounced “Per-Wah”) is also the name of the brand of best mass-produced Polish pilsner, at least as far as popular “Lawnmower Beers” go.

There are MANY Polish names & nicknames that would fit this question perfectly. (I have never met a Jacob here who wasn’t called “Cuba”)