No, Americans are *NOT* a bunch of racist warmongers

[Una_Persson]

Ah, hell. We ought to leave Diogenes be on the “leave” bit. If he stayed gone, people would accuse him of running away or being too cowardly to respond to his slurs against others. When he comes back, people make fun of him for coming back.

How’s about everyone having a Gentleperson’s Agreement that from this point forward if he goes, he goes and isn’t taunted anymore for leaving. If he stays, he stays, and don’t taunt him for having left and come back. Huh?

I mean come on. If you can’t find enough else to stomp his electronic guts out with…then just put him on Ignore.

[Ogre]

I chalk it up to his seeing some very horrible things, and those things leaving an indelible mark.

So he spoke rashly. Big deal. He’s backed off from those statements quite a bit. I’ve noticed that he’s really quite reasonable in other threads.

The reaction’s understandable, I think. We should cut him some slack.

[Gary_Kumquat]

*Originally posted by Anthracite *
Ah, hell. We ought to leave Diogenes be on the “leave” bit. If he stayed gone, people would accuse him of running away or being too cowardly to respond to his slurs against others. When he comes back, people make fun of him for coming back.

Very well said.

[Soup_du_jour]

Ogre, I agree. Dude seems like a smart enough dude, he just made a poor word choice to articulate himself.

Let’s not crucify the guy.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Let me say this, and then please God can we kill this thread. Like Ogre said, I tend to be hyper-reactive about this subject. I made an off-hand cynical, sniping comment about a possible invasion of Iraq in a tangentially related thread. I was flamed. I got overly defensive and flamed back. My cite was (to my embarrassment) soundly refuted. Even though I still believe that civilian casualties were under reported by our government (and plenty of other governments dispute our numbers) I can not prove it and will, for the sake of civility, accept the other sites posted in this thread.

I also think that human nature is such that, on a collective subconscious level, the more different an enemy is, culturally, ethnically, religiously and yes, racially, the easier it is to dehumanize them and the easier it is to kill them. Not just for Americans for everybody. having said, however, to charge that “Americans love to kill brown people” as I did in a moment of defensive rage, was out of line, untrue and stupid. I apologize.

Before we invade another country, especially “pre-emptively,” I would hope that the public would have a real understanding of the human consequences for both sides, and to have a damn good reason to do it. Too often I hear people, and the media, treat war as if it were a football game or a movie. I’m not trying to speak from some “moral authority,” I just sometimes, sincerely, feel as though a large percentage of the public doesn’t take it seriously enough. The last poll I saw said that 70% of Americans are in favor of war with Iraq, yet we all know that many of them can’t find Iraq on a map, name their own senators, or correctly identify in what century the Civil War took place. (Dopers are excepted here. Cecil fans are a pretty self-selected audience, so the fact that anyone finds their way onto these boards at all is evidence of at least a half-way decent level of education and intelligence)

I have a tendency to sometimes spout off in an emotional way, and then feel locked into trying to defend it. I’m not backing down from my core opinion here ( that an invasion of Iraq is not yet morally justified) but I am sorry for the way I said it.

I’d like to thank Ogre for keeping an open mind and defending me a little bit.

and I’m not a fucking liar Tucker.

[Ogre]

Very reasonably put, Diogenes. No hard feelings on my part. I’ve never been in a combat situation, but I can see how the reality of it would put you on a sensitive footing about the subject.

I have my hot-button issues too, and I suspect we all do.

Peace.

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
**Sgt. J
I did not intend any criticism of individual service members. I Know that they are not “baby-killers.” . **

Correct. Your ‘baby killer’ remark was directed at us on the board.

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
**Sgt. J
I did not intend any criticism of individual service members. I Know that they are not “baby-killers.” . **

Correct. Your ‘baby killer’ remark was directed at us on the board.

[Henry_B]

So, I hope this is th
Peace, everyone, there is a war ahead!
Or som 20 wars…, how do I know?

Spit
Hi there, was there something in my post You wonder about.
Need cites?

Diogenes the Cynic wrote:

Before we invade another country, especially “pre-emptively,” I would hope that the public would have a real understanding of the human consequences for both sides, and to have a damn good reason to do it. Too often I hear people, and the media, treat war as if it were a football game or a movie.

You said it! Many times when I read posts I realize that these posters have necer lived in a post-war country.
They have only seen the parade when the boys comes home and at its worst a solidier that is bound to his chair the rest of his life.
I am not speaking about solidiers, just those that sees everything through TV and the parades.

It is often like we would comment a computer-game.

But as I said before, when You have to fight You have to fight, but we should not put solidiers where-ever for what-ever reason, risking their lifes, like they would be toy-solidiers.
The earn a much higher respect.

Because it is said that a war is just extended politics, we can ask how good are our politicians that should be “for the Good Guys”?
Are they good, or just talking how good they are?

[Sgt.J]

DtC

I have a tendency to sometimes spout off in an emotional way, and then feel locked into trying to defend it. I’m not backing down from my core opinion here ( that an invasion of Iraq is not yet morally justified) but I am sorry for the way I said it.

I can relate. I do that too.

[Tuckerfan]

Diogenes, I agree with the following statements of yours:

Even though I still believe that civilian casualties were under reported by our government (and plenty of other governments dispute our numbers) I can not prove it and will, for the sake of civility, accept the other sites posted in this thread.

Casualty figures are notoriously inaccurate, often being inflated/deflated for propaganda reasons. The true death toll in the Persian Gulf War will never be known.

I also think that human nature is such that, on a collective subconscious level, the more different an enemy is, culturally, ethnically, religiously and yes, racially, the easier it is to dehumanize them and the easier it is to kill them.

Agreed.

Before we invade another country, especially “pre-emptively,” I would hope that the public would have a real understanding of the human consequences for both sides, and to have a damn good reason to do it.

Again, agreed.

While it’s easier said than done, it is wiser to think before you post. I’ve screwed up and posted things in the heat of passion that I didn’t mean and promptly (and rightly so) gotten my ass handed to me on more than one occassion.

The fact that you can come back here and admit to overreacting, says more about your level of maturity than anything else you’ve done so far.

Let’s all try and forget about what was said in this thread.