The Mexicans selling the art were obviously fine with exchanging a few dollars for the art. I find it ludicrous that someone is going to change their house decor because of the critique from a couple of knuckleheads.
Welcome to academia…
Ugh. There is a difference between cultural appropriation, and cultural appreciation. I’ve got a friend who displays a couple Kabuki masks, because they look cool. I don’t think that’s a problem.
Going full-on weeaboo, though? Not so much.
We so need a “Like” button here.
Nah, I don’t buy that. The defining characteristic of Maui isn’t that he’s brown, it’s that he’s huge and tattooed. This doesn’t apply to Ariel costumes (because it doesn’t apply to Ariel), and if there’s a Disney-princess costume with pointless Caucasian-ish sleeves, I’d be okay with calling that silly and pointless.
Judging from the pictures of the costume, you probably need one person’s help for two seconds to close the zipper up the back. Beyond that, I suspect the suit is as easy to put on as a loose set of longjohns. In contrast, applying temporary tattoos that approach the scale of Maui’s is a far longer and more involved (and wetter) process.
So, no, I maintain that it is not easier to use a temp-tattoo substitute, except in the sense of it being easier on the conscience, if one is inclined to feel guilty about such things.
So?For plenty of people it is a religious holiday. A major one, even. And some do resent that it has been turned into a secular and consumerist holiday. And in any case, secular or religious, it’s definitely a western tradition, not an Indian one. Hence it definitely qualify as cultural appropriation.
And you have been giving thanks to whom on this day, historically? But in any case I didn’t pick this holiday because it’s religious but because it’s American, hence again not Indian. So, again, cultural appropriation.
If you believe that fans of cultural appropriation would give a pass to the equivalent being done by westerners, you would be mistaken. Celebrating the Chinese New Year when you aren’t Chinese is considered as such by our beloved social warriors. And if it were a traditional celebration from a more opressed culture than China (say, the Sun Dance or something), I’m pretty certain their reaction would be even more negative.
Well, it’s the right of anyone to think of anyone else as an asshole for any reason they want. Heck, I’m sure there are people on this board who offend other people in the world by their mere existence, regardless of any specific action taken.
Damn culture-appropriating Canadians! Only proper Americans should be allowed to give thanksgiving! We need to invade, or build a wall or something…
You have absolutely no idea how many countries other than China celebrate “Chinese New Year” as a national holiday, do you? Can you cite us some “social warrior” complaining that Malaysia or Singapore has appropriated Chinese culture?
But it’s apparently not up to the person eating the food to make that call, but the person from whose culture the food originated. I can certainly picture someone from China who considered themselves something of a food purist who, upon looking at the food and preparations in a North American “Chinese” restaurant, finds them grossly offensive because (among other reasons) the restaurant uses some North American ingredients, prepares their food in a style meant for maximum appeal to North American palates, offers the diners the option of western-style cutlery, has a few non-Chinese-descended chefs, and roughly translates the names of the dishes onto English menus. I can picture the person’s feelings of offense being quite sincere. Does it become appropriation then? And if it does… so?
I’m not any kind of an expert on Polynesian myth, but as I understand it, one of Maui’s greatest feats was hauling the Polynesian islands out of the ocean with an enormous fish hook. So “Really fucking strong,” does seem to be an important part of his deal.
I have a friend who served us grilled Portabella “hamburgers”, because she’s a vegetarian. We all got to enjoy the rant of a “proud meat-eater” about how dare she call that abomination a hamburger! It was offensive to him.
Everyone else said “Portabella burger, please” (and I said, “I’ll have a hot dog.”) Meathead sulked and ate chips. But we were nice enough to stop calling them HAMburgers, to mollify him.
If your Chinese straw man feels that Americanized Chinese food is an abomination to him, call it “Americanized Chinese food” (or “Chinese-American fusion cuisine” if you’re fancy), and get on with your life.
Your straw man said you hurt him, acknowledge the damage you did to his hay stuffing, and don’t do it to him again.
:: snipped ::
The assumption you make, that kids will think of Polynesians as inhuman due to the costume is a bit silly. An equally likely assumption to make is that the kids will realize that, with the costume on, they haven’t really changed and skin color does not define who they are. That, of course, is more likely to lead to accepting others who are different.
Furthermore, it is also possible that by dressing up as Maui, the kids get interested in Polynesian culture and learn more about it.
For the record, hereis a costume for a white character that covers up skin tone.
I suspect the issue is that most superheros have full body costumes. Superman, Batman, Spider-man, none of them really show any skin. He-Man, Wolverine and now Maui do and therefore the costumes are designed to match the character.
Slee
Huh.
Based on that, I went Googling a couple of other RFS heroes with whitish skin: Hercules, and He-Man. What I’m finding is that there aren’t many such costumes made for kids; but the ones for adults definitely are skinsuits with white skin.
If Maui’s strength is a defining characteristic in the way it is for He-Man or Hercules, it makes sense that a muscle-suit would be part of the costume, and that makes the whole thing a lot less weird. I retract what I said before about the costume designers: I think they’re blameless, given the call for a muscle-suit for the character.
Now, I’m still not sure it’s a good idea, given the history of blackface. I don’t much care about the cultural appropriation argument TBH, I think cultural appropriation is in most cases an overblown concern (although it’s sometimes legit). I’m not sure kids will appreciate why Maui’s costume is necessarily a skinsuit while the white Disney costumes are just clothes. But it’s not the fault of the designers.
The other day, I was showing someone old pictures including one where I appear dressed in Napoleonic hussard officer costume. Did I fight in the “grande armée”? No. Did I earn the officer stripes? No. Did I give a shit about not having deserved to wear this uniform? Not the slighest bit.
And besides, regarding both the feather bonnet and the maoris tatoos granted as a result of specific actions : how many of these actions would I have morally approved of? I’m pretty certain that I would have found most of them despicable, and most of the wearers of those distinctions equally morally despicable. So, even if I was taking into account their cultural significance for some Amerindians/Maoris, I still would have in all likelihood exactly zero respect for these symbols.
There are some symbols I’ll have respect for. But there are few and far between, and neither war bonnets nor Maori tatoos will qualify
And I decide that all the time. And you do the same all the time. Everybody does that. About political, religious, social, cultural, personal issues. About beliefs, opinions, inclinations, ways of life, behavior.
Are you going to state that you never make statements that you know are offensive for some group or another? Do you never criticize religious beliefs, political opinions, cultural attitudes? Of course you do. But you have your own list of people you shouldn’t hurt the feelings of, and of people who can go fuck themselves if their feelings are hurt.
In Atheist vs believer threads, I’ve made many statements that a lot of people would find offensive. How many times have I been criticized by non-believers for my insensitive ways wrt Christian beliefs? Pretty much never. But war bonnets, war bonnets…now, that’s something I should be very respectful of, apparently. Well, no. I’ve no reason to be more accomodating with people who hold war bonnets in high esteem than with people who hold Joseph Smith writings or a flag, or whatever is one’s relic of choice in equally high esteem.
I’ve dressed up as a catholic priest, as an imam, as an Inca priest. Led perfectly fake religious ceremonies and prayers in these costumes, including marriages, burials, mass and Eucharist, propriatory offerings. I’m sure tons of people would find this offensive, and could tell me : “it hurts my feelings that you would make a mockery of my religion by pretending to be a cleric and conducting fake and innacurate religious ceremonies that are extremely important in my beliefs system”.
Why did I do that? For my and others’ mere amusement at a time when I was organizing live action role-playing games. Do I feel bad for having done something for fun that would offend some people sensibilities? Not the slighest bit. And though it didn’t happen, I would similarly have had zero issue with posing as a plain Indian shaman or Maori warrior, with or without war bonnet and/or fake tatoos. Why would I think of people complaining? That they’re under no obligation to attend if they don’t like it. And on top of it, rather than feeling bad, I would have thought less of them for their complaints.
I think a little bit of cultural appropriation is fine as long as the intent was to honor that culture and doesn’t contain anything too bad.
People have tattoos and wear grass skirts, its not a big deal
Doesn’t really matter. Once a cultural element comes to general knowledge, it takes off and lives its own life. It will be grabbed by someone and used, transformed, incorporated into other cultures. There is no stopping it. No culture is static, and no culture is an island, regardless of your preferences. Minority? Majority? Pointless argument.
And to add to the list of my cultural crimes, I also did story telling during a period of my life. I told tales from eras I didn’t live in, from regions, countries, cultures, continents I had no connection with. I told Alsatian tales, Russian tales, Turkish tales, Persian tales, African tales, Jewish tales, even Polynesian tales when I think of it.
Once again, cultural appropriation. Is telling Polynesian tales when you aren’t Polynesian a bad thing? I’m pretty certain it’s at the contrary a very good thing, and no social warrior, even a Polynesian one, is going to make me change my mind about it.
Christmas Day is an official holiday in all the states of India, where only 2 percent of the population is Christian. And many non-Christian Indians celebrate Christmas in one way or another.
Furthermore, many Indian-American Hindus celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, with trees and lights and gift-giving.
All your example shows is that it’s okay if the offended person is mockable.
What if his demands don’t stop there; he insists the restaurant shouldn’t use the word “Chinese” in any context? Because the degree of how offended he is purely arbitrary, there is no practical limit to how accommodating the restaurant should be, even to the point of permanently closing.
And if my illustration is being downplayed for being a “strawman” (I don’t agree that it is - I don’t doubt there are food experts in China who consider it important to preserve traditional recipes and procedures and resist/criticize what they see as counterfeit), then so should the Plains Indian war bonnet example.
See. Large-scale cultural appropriation by non-westerner non-Christian Indians. I expect people to be mightily offended over this. Bad, bad, Indians. Thanks for making my point.